weikosteve, which lawsuits were frivolous? Will the money used to accelerate the project have a cost? Guess not, money appears to be free on Marco Island except when it is taken from the taxpayers to pay for a sewer few want. Factsnotfictionplease, the flood of unpopular actions by this Council will effect all future candidates. All that water cannot possibly pass under the bridge. Not one candidate will be permitted to pass muster unless they publicly condem this council's actions and promise to make it right. Old Councilmembers and future candidates will be held accountable. Steph get your running shoes on, your support of these people will chase you until you loose. Trotter, you sir can forget about it, your wife will be your only vote. DiScillio look out, you now have too many pro-sewer votes to be re-elected. It is too late now to show sensitivity to our citizen's plight, you have become part of the problem. Vote for change.

Lolala: Your political fervor is to be admired. I have every confidence that the majority of voters will CONTINUE to prevail and keep sanity and progressive leadership in power on Marco Island. You keep wanting to make the STRP a political issue. When will you and so many others realize that it is not. It is an environmental issue to Marco Island and to the State, and even to the Federal Governments. That is why we get grants. That is why every City that touches public waters in the State is, has, or has planned, to replace Septic Tanks. Our STRP is done, accept it. If we choose locally to "stop it", the State will step in and mandate it's completion (via the FDEP and the original EIS filed and approved for development of Marco Island). So it boils down to finding candidates that will represent what the majority of Marco Islanders want. That is why it is incumbent upon all of us to try to get as many of our 15,000 full time residents registered to vote and to the polls. Just always remeber that 2,000 does not make a majority and remember that Mr. Hall got less signed petitions his second go around than his first.

Bob: Next year is the election. If you really think about it, STRP or no STRP will not be affected by this decision, at least for under 10% of the Island (including us). This is also not a Council issue, but a State/Environmental issue. In this case, I look at the Council as implementing, at the lowest cost to us, a mandated goal of the State. After all, the EIS for development of Marco (available at Rookery Bay) assures the State that all development on Marco Island will be sewered. Septic Tanks in the density that they are on our Island are just no good for the environment and water quality. I am not looking any more forward to this assessment than anyone else, but it will save me from eventually having to replace my tank and eventually having the State make us do this at a higher cost.

lauralbi1, the Council made the STRP a political cross to bear for all Council members and candidates for that office. I didn't do it. The people that paid for it will get their revenge one way or another. You know little of what you speak or you are simply delusional. The EPA and FDEP have both made public statements that contradict everything you have ever claimed about pushing sewers where they are not required. As for the EIP originally filed for the development of Marco Island, that went out the window when Collier County ignored it and followed the Federal guidelines which permitted safe on-site systems. Stop citing documents and studies with expired usefulness. If we followed such documents, your house would be demolished not just because it is currently contaminated with dangerous asbestos dust but because it was built on what would today be a protected mangrove inland waterway.

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This to all you business owners. By By. Your city council people just keep driving people away. There are several eateries that will not reopen their doors next season. There are several more for sale.

Lolala: How many quotes and actions from EPA and FDEP do you need to see straight. You have to be looking through Septic colored glasses to say what you are saying. I tell you what, let's call the Govenor's office and get an opinion on this issue from that office. Or, better yet, since I already know the opinion and stance, why don't you do it !!

FDEP
Jon Iglehart, Director with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection (FDEP), addressed the department’s position on Septic Tanks versus central wastewater collection treatment and disposal systems. Mr. Iglehart stated: “it is the Department’s opinion that central wastewater collection and treatment systems offer a preferred environmental alternative for serving the utility needs of a community such as the City of Marco Island.”

Here you go:

http://www.myflorida.com/everglades/g...

During the Evaluation and Appraisal Report process, the FDEP, the Department of Health and Rehabilitative Services - County Public Health Units, and DCA should assist local governments in identifying unsewered developed areas and areas that should be considered priorities for abandoning septic tanks and providing alternative wastewater treatment facilities. As a first priority, this process should focus on those areas adjacent to the Outstanding Florida Waters of the Florida Keys and Florida Bay.

lauralbi1, I do not see anything in Mr. Iglehart's statement that even implies mandatory change for Marco Island. He is expressing an "opinion" not policy or mandate. He cannot make it policy without the EPA being shown a need or a change in national policy occurs. You have the same problem our council does. You cannot tell the difference between something YOU want and something WE all NEED. No one in Mr. Iglehart's department or the EPA can show evidence of NEED. That does not exist. Evidence of non-pollution exists and that is the problem (although I doubt our waterways remain pristine after all the pollution the STRP contractors have been pouring into them). Mr. Iglehart is simply expressing an opinion not a finding. Get it?

What we see on this blog are comments by the missinformed who have believed the lies used to justify this monumental mistake and disaster. I offer the following informed comments by the Director of Environmental Health for Collier County.

Let's have an honest debate on the facts.

June 4, 2007

Ken Rech

Environmental Health and Engineering Director

Collier County, FL

Dear Mr. Rech

During our telephone conversation this morning we discussed several issues that I would like to bring to the attention of our City Council. In order to insure that I am not misstating you positions I am outlining them below. If you disagree with any of them or would like to amplify them please do so by responding to this e-mail.

Thank you,

Roger Hall

During our conversation you made the following points:

I don’t see any need to replace the septic tanks on Marco Island either now or in the future.
There aren’t any governmental regulations that I am aware of forcing the replacement of the septic tanks either now or in the future. In fact, nationwide, the government is moving away from centralized sewer systems to smaller managed systems.
The state of Florida is concerned over the amount of nitrogen that is being introduced into our waterways but it would appear that is primarily the result of runoff from landscaping. There hasn’t been any linkage to septic tanks statewide.
We have had very few complaints about septic systems on Marco. The complaints would be in the order of 6 over the previous three years on 6,500 septic systems. They are simply in the ground doing what they were designed to do very efficiently and should continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
The failures of the system are non existent. We have occasional request for a repair, but they are very limited. Most of the time it is simply a question of telling people how to maintain the system.
We don’t have any control of the sewer system on Marco and they are doing what they are doing for their own reasons.

I understand that I may be quoted on these remarks at a city council meeting and I am open to discussing them with any interested party. 239 403 2499 ext. 5528

There isn't any need; there isn't any pending legislation; the septic tanks would continue to work as designed for years to come. Why are we destroying the island with this project?

Roger Hall

Gee, I guess once again, Mr. Hall has gone to and quoted the wrong people. It never occurred to Mr. Hall that Collier County was the agency that violated the EIS in the first place by issuing "Temporary Permits" for construction using Septic Tanks so that Collier County could get rich and survive by generating faster and more tax revenue from construction that would not have taken place had the requirement for sewer connections been complied with. I guess it never occurred to Mr. Hall that Mr. Rech's opinion on this issue is irrelevant and he might as well be quoting Butch Neylon with his Electrcial Engineering background. We have many experts with PhD's here on Marco Island and many more in the FDEP with degrees in Environmental Engineering and Water Quality Engineering, or myself with a degree in Civil Engineering, having worked with Goundwater Replenishment.
Mr. Hall, a bit of common sense for a question. Given a "perfect World where sewers and Septic were by choice" would it be better to have homeowner liquid discharge, including what goes down your garbage disposal, feces in your toilet water, urine and more, going into the ground adjacent to public waters and groundwater, or to have this discharge carried away and treated ?? Come on, use some Common Sense. The FDEP is and EPA is. In addition, any home over 20 years old is at risk, right now, for Septic Tank replacement. That is a fact nobody can argue.

So much for my attempt for an honest debate. All the hate slate can do is insult because they don't have any facts. Cowardly insults from people that are too small to sign their names are not worth acknowledging. For the rest of you I offer:

THE STRP HOAX

The Septic Tank Replacement Program, STRP, was initially justified on the basis our septic tanks were polluting the canals. When the data disproved that theory we were told the septic tanks were spreading their pollution and would pollute our canals in the future. There is irrefutable evidence this is not true.
.
If you inspect the laterals that are being installed to the homes and vacant lots where the system is under construction you will note that there isn’t any difference in the sand or trenches that are being dug from the trenches to existing homes, typically right up to the septic system, or vacant lots. The systems aren’t even migrating a few feet let alone the 100 feet most of them are from the canals.

The city has been dewatering the areas immediately surrounding our septic tanks for over a year. The City’s web site states: “Installation of “well points” (to remove groundwater) will generate water, sand, and silt within the swales. This groundwater will have an unpleasant odor (caused by decaying organic matter in the ground), but it is a natural process and not a health or environmental issue.”

In this statement the City states that despite pumping millions of gallons of water from the area immediately adjacent to and surrounding the septic systems there isn’t any evidence of sewage in our water table. If there was it would be a health or environmental issue and they would be treating it before they dumped it into the canals.

We are spending $135 million dollars and tearing up our island to fix a problem that doesn’t exist! I would ask that those who hold some influence with the council bring their councilperson to the site, observe for your selves and ask “Why are we doing this?”

Roger Hall
Marco Island

hey Ray, It looks like you have come up with some new anonymous names since you were outed on your other 7 or 8. We will all be glad when you son finally gets sentenced so we will no longer have to listen to you pathetic attempts to curry favor with your neighbor Moss in order to get him a favorable sentence. You are turning into a pathetic, sick, old man. I guess I would be too if I had your legacy to look back on.

VI wrote,

Mr. Iglehart stated: “it is the Department’s opinion that central wastewater collection and treatment systems offer a preferred environmental alternative for serving the utility needs of a community such as the City of Marco Island.”

Notice the word "OPINION"! You know what they say about opinions.....don't you VI? There is NO NEED now or ever to sewer the rest of the island. Just a waste of tax payer money. Why don't we spend our money on things that will bring more families here to support the businesses here? Why this STRP blunder. What we need now is some more lawsuits to delay indefinately this blunder. Why don't all citizens file a class action suit against both the city and the people in charge. Maybe that will get their attention?

lauralbi1, I went to the web address you supplied and read the document you refer to. This document presents opinions and thoughts that some unknown person wrote more than 10 years ago! If the government did all the "should" actions expressed in it, Marco Island would have to shut down it's sewer plant and stop all further development. That's just for starters. Then we would have to move everyone in SWF north of Orlando. This document presents extremes and advises among many other things more testing of our waterways, not less! It is advisary in nature and current events show that has been igornored by agreculture and real estate developers for the last 10 years. It even says that sewers are not the answer, the answer is reduced development and fewer people. That is not what this City Council is promoting. You are riding the wrong horse Issler, you have to do better than that.

Oracle, I don't need an anonymous name to deal with jerks like you. I have sworn off these blogs because of a-- h---'s like you. I'd like to tell you a story about your your mother but I have too much class. Call me I'm in the book you f#$@ing coward.

Ray

Soloman aka Ray I guess you are hallucinating when you swore off the blogs. Your alta egos keep showing up. It is nice that one of your other egos has stepped forward to defend you. Good for him! Soloman is a better friend than Geezer. Geezer needs to say something nice too. You really should seek treatment. All that hate in one person is not healthy.

We are also enlightened to your definition of class by the manner in which you express yourself in your blogs.

I don't think I attacked your family. Your son's career is well known on the island. I simply exposed your motives for sucking up to Moss.

Roger, I am so very happy that we can once again agree on something. "So much for my attempt for an honest debate."

Do all of Ray Buefords aliases get to vote in the next election?

At the workshop held by the city, Dr. Shirley of Rookery Bay stated clearly that he had no scientifically valid evidence connecting Marco septic tanks with pollution of Marco waters either by fecal coliform or nutrients.

Dr. Iglehart (Director of the FDEP) stated that the FDEP had no intention of forcing Marco to replace septic tanks with central sewers unless and until there was evidence that septic tanks were causing pollution and such evidence did not exist nor was it likely to exist in the future. He also admitted that the location of Marco's wastewater treatment plant was "far from ideal."

Both Shirley and Iglehart said they "preferred" central sewers but neither presented any evidence that they are better than onsite treatment or that Marco's present septic systems are causing pollution.

Ken Rech, the Collier representative of the FDOH, also voiced support for onsite treatment if the systems are properly managed. Had Mark Hooks, a higher up from the FDOH in Tallahassee been at the workshop, he would have strongly supported onsite wastewater treatment over central sewers for Marco Island.

The Council has NEVER seriously considered professionally managed onsite treatment (septic systems, et al). That approach would cost homeowners $300/year in operating expense including a guarantee of performance. (If it ever fails, it will be replaced at no cost.) When I pointed this out to him privately after the workshop, Dr. Iglehart's response was "you can't beat that."

Rather than investigating managed onsite treatment, cluster systems, and other alternatives, the council forced an extremely expensive, potentially dangerous and unnecessary system that will cost each homeowner $600/year in operating expense over and above installation costs.

STRP construction has caused the first decline in property values in over ten years in ANY area of Florida. Realtors are dying for lack of sales, and restaurants are starving. When the Board of Realtors and the Chamber of Commerce wake up and smell the coffee, they will oppose the accelerated STRP program even more than the homeowners do. They can't survive 5 years of starvation. I'm just surprised they haven't seen the light yet!

All that I said about the workshop is on the videotape of the meeting that I turned over when I resigned as CARES' chairman. Perhaps someone like Mario can dig it up, extract the pertinent parts and post it on his blogsite.

Let's wake up people! It's not too late despite what our leader says.

Ed Foster

Ed, great stuff as usual, but could you skim the fat off your 'novels' just a bit so those of us with ADHD can finish it reading your posts

And leave out all the big words and use pictures so Godfrey/lowus can understand it.

beau, Godfrey Davies last time I checked was about 6'6" and a good 235lbs. That doesn't quite fit my description, that being said he's about 6x's your size, I'm not sure provoking him would be in your best interest, but then again your the(solo)man.

did I actually see a 'your mama is so ugly' posted?
NDN time to shut this thing down.

Moss and Tucker sitt'n in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First comes Love then comes Marriage
then comes the STRP in a baby carriage.

yes, I'm a lonely guy.

Well Godfrey, that's interesting. Last year you told me your blog name was lowus, we even collaborated on a few blogs, did you have a sex change since then.

I may have called you a few choice names in the past, as have many you think are your friends, but stupid was not one of them, so 6'6" and 235 lbs does not concern me.

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Mr. Hall:

The words of our telephone conversation are very much taken out of context to serve your platform. The actual conversation in no way reflected the e-mail comments and I am therefore sending this rebuttal of your recollection of our brief conversation.

The following points will be reviewed separately as follows.
HALL #1 I don’t see any need to replace the septic tanks on Marco Island either now or in the future
Item #1 Answer - The question of the need to replace septic systems now or in the future was not asked. If you would have asked the question the answer would have been that septic systems are only as good as the maintenance program that the individual home owner provides. There is no way that septic systems would ever be considered life time systems without need for replacement or repair.

HALL #2 - There aren’t any governmental regulations that I am aware of forcing the replacement of the septic tanks either now or in the future. In fact, nationwide, the government is moving away from centralized sewer systems to smaller managed systems.

Item #2 - Government regulations forcing replacement of septic tanks either now or in the future was not asked. The City can mandate replacement and connection to a municipal sewer system, when septic systems fail they must be replaced or repaired. The use of decentralized systems and alternates to central sewer are under consideration in many parts of the country and in Florida. The key to any long term system is the need for proper maintenance and oversight. Private septic systems which are never maintained and reviewed for operation can not be considered the best environmental solution.

HALL #3 - The state of Florida is concerned over the amount of nitrogen that is being introduced into our waterways but it would appear that is primarily the result of runoff from landscaping. There hasn’t been any linkage to septic tanks statewide.

Item #3 - The State, local governments, environmentalists, and the public are concerned with the amount of nitrogen and pollution in waterways. The runoff from the land must be considered in the total accumulation of pollution. Septic tanks are not the only source of nitrogen.

HALL #4 - We have had very few complaints about septic systems on Marco. The complaints would be in the order of 6 over the previous three years on 6,500 septic systems. They are simply in the ground doing what they were designed to do very efficiently and should continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

Item #4 - Complaints are very few as indicated. The untold story is what is happening to all of the systems which are not being maintained and are leaking undetected into the groundwater. The second part of your item was never a part of our conversation. There is no way to determine the efficiency of an unattended system. As to the length of time the systems would be able to function there is no way to determine the anticipated life span of any system.

HALL #5 - The failures of the system are non existent. We have occasional request for a repair, but they are very limited. Most of the time it is simply a question of telling people how to maintain the system.

Item #5 - Permits are issued to repair failing systems. Repairs of systems are required when the system does not function as required. Many times failures are related to overloading, too much water use, roots from plants and trees and general misuse of the system. Many persons who live with septic systems do not know how to care for the system to provide a long and useful lifespan.

HALL #6 - We don’t have any control of the sewer system on Marco and they are doing what they are doing for their own reasons.

Item #6 - The statement was that the Florida Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) is the agency which regulates sewer systems. The City has the right to provide the infrastructure which they select. Anytime a municipal sewer system is available for domestic sewage it is the preferred method of disposal to protect public health.

HALL - I understand that I may be quoted on these remarks at a city council meeting and I am open to discussing them with any interested party.

The conversation was not reflected properly in this email and you had no right to indicate that your wording was reflective of the discussion. I was unable to review your comments prior to your meeting on Monday night. Any further discussion of the septic replacement program on Marco Island will be in writing.

Sincerely,
Ken Rech, P. E.
Environmental Health & Engineering Director
Collier County Health Department

Mr. Hall, did you really think that no one was going to check your sources? I agree with the posts that call you self-important and a liar!

soooooo....mr rech,PE...i read hall's letter and yours...they are identical....you basically said the same thing hall said in his "quotes" of your conversation. perhaps you should not open your mouth without checking with lisa or your boss.

It would be highly unlikely that anyone in a responsible position in government would tell someone on the phone that they could be quoted from a conversation without a back up copy in writing. It would be far too easy for someone like Hall to "hear" what he wanted to hear.

Van, I read both also..you need to have your eyes checked, the remarks posted by CityofMarcoIslandInformation and what was posted by Hall earlier are not at all the same. Have you visited your eye doctor recently?

Mr. Rech, you protest too much. This was an unrecorded phone conversation. A careful examination of your rebuttal reveals that Hall did a pretty good job of reporting what you believe to be true. Throughout your response you fail to deny the essence of any of Mr. Hall's assertions. In an attempt to show what might be, you use phrases like "untold story". You also make statements such as "septic systems are only as good as the maintenance program they receive", and then follow that with confirmation that the Agency has received several requests for permits reflecting repairs. It is reasonable to assume the existance of permits validate responsible maintenance. You also make a conflicting statement like "No lifetime system known", then you follow that up with "their is no way of determining the anticipated lifetime of a system". The industry advertises a lifetime of 30 years. You yourself state that septic tanks are not the only source of nitrogin. With all the agriculture runoff in this state, that is not really news is it? In Item 2 you attempt to discuss government regulations that Mr. Hall claims you said are non-existent. Your response to Item 2 refers only to muncipal mandates. You offer no examples of "regulations". You do admit that it is your "opinion" (I have one too), that once a city decides to go with sewers it is the "preferred" method. Mr. Hall reported that. I would say that all in all, Mr. Hall gave a pretty good account of your converseration and that your response on behalf of our City validates Mr. Hall's reflections. Thanks for the clarity.

Dear city BS er's
You and your staff's credibility is SHOT!
Please don't come on these blogs and try to tell the knowledgable public to believe you, we wont.
When you have to convince us that Bill Moss and others are in the right, your word becomes mute.
Your power structure is on 'borrowed time'

Hawke, it looks like Rech took Hall's version of a conversation published by Hall and went point by point clarifying it...but is the poster "CityofMarcoIslandInformation", Rech? No, it's Lisa Douglas. Check out this screen names' profile and posts. So don't ASSume who said what because you know what happens when you do that.

Hall has a reason to spin what HE reports as a conversation with Rech and Douglas has a reason to spin things as well. Perhaps you all need to step back and think a bit. Other officials have been quoted, but unless it comes directly from these folks, the credability of these quotes is suspect as well.
He said, he said, she said???? c'mon folks you are making too many assumptions.

Hey, I don't want any government telling me that my property must connect to County utilities. I live on the mainland and am following this issue because I fear someday it will be our fate as well, but at a certain point, it may be wiser to spend time energy and resources on fights which can be won. There are so many important issues at hand today which need help and attention. Working to help promote affordable housing for service workers and others is a good fight...raising money for cancer research, etc...lots of concerns needing your time and energy.

Enjoy Florida a bit. The battle royal should not just be about the flush...it ISN'T Washington, D.C.! Chill with the spin control.

1) Ken Rech works for the State of Florida Department of Health and is assigned to Collier County. I did not mean to imply that he worked for the County. The FDOH is responsible for permitting onsite wastewater treatment systems.

2) The Florida Department of Environmental Protection (FDEP) permits central sewer systems but has nothing to do with onsite systems. Similarly, the FDOH has nothing to do with central sewers. This helps explain why Hall reported Rech as saying he doesn't "see any need to replace the septic tanks on Marco Island either now or in the future." He is responsible for permitting them and continues to permit them.

3) Whether or not Rech said: "There aren’t any governmental regulations that I am aware of forcing the replacement of the septic tanks either now or in the future," Dr. Iglehart of the FDEP who would be responsible for issuing such an order did make that statement at the workshop.

4) Whether or not said: "In fact, nationwide, the government is moving away from centralized sewer systems to smaller managed systems," the statement is true.

5) The multi-part posting purporting to be by Rech is signed "CityofMarcoIslandInformation" which leads me to believe that Lisa Douglass prepared it. Ms. Douglass formerly worked for the FDEP and is a strong proponent of central sewers. That said, I have little problem with the factual accuracy of her posting.

6) Comparison of Hall's reporting of his conversation with Rech and the City posting shows that they agree on a factual basis. They differ only in their "slant." The City's rebuttal is slanted to support central sewers and glosses over areas that do not support that view. For example, the city posting glosses over the fact that there have been virtually no problems reported with Marco septic systems; six in three years is fewer than the number of sewage spills listed by the FDEP in a comparable period on Marco.

7) Mr. Rech (if we are to believe Rech wrote the posting) suggests that unmanaged septic systems can leak and be dangerous and that they have limited life. True ... and equally true of central sewers which have about the same life. This is demonstrated by the fact that we are now replacing our major sewer lines and rebuilding the plant at a cost of millions. The difference is that onsite systems can be inspected regularly while an underground sewer main can leak for years and no one is the wiser. (The EPA estimates that over 850 BILLION gallons of raw sewage leak from sewer mains each year!) When I was chairman, CARES supported a mandated management program for our onsite systems rather than the STRP. This approach is fully approved by the EPA and the FDOH. For $300/year, an ordinary septic system can be professionally maintained and guaranteed for life which is far more than can be said for central sewers.

Ed Foster

P.S. I apologize for the length of this treatise to my attention-deficit-plagued friend.

Ray Beaufort,

I've received a couple of telephone calls this morning from friends suggesting I visit the on-line blogs and read what you had to say about me. I had the same friends urge me to read your blogs a few weeks ago. Ray, I have to tell you that I have given up the wonderfully entertaining pastime of participating in the blogs. Since you left us, I have had to pick up the load that you were carrying so well. None of us realized just how much you helped with your fact finding and your all-time favorite, being the devil's advocate. You helped so much in keeping me grounded with facts, not fiction or fantasy, that lately it's been tough keeping on message. You left at the wrong time because we both know and recognize you love this stuff. Both Donna and I miss those late night telephone calls when we planned the strategy for trying to bring responsible leadership back to Marco. After reading the latest from you, I decided to check the history on your various blog names. Good grief Ray, you did get ugly there several times. Stay in Indiana, failed police officer, what on earth prompted all that vileness? I'd like to give you some advice.....I hadn't seen you in a good while.
Ray, you need to take that cruise someone suggested, you need to smell the roses, you need to chill out, you need to get your health back on track. While I'm not a doctor, I can tell you that you should get outside more often and enjoy this beautiful place before the sewer comes down Copperfield. Please don't bother to respond, I really don't want to hear from you especially after reading all that garbage I was warned about. Oh, I almost forgot, I've never been 6'6" and the last time I weighed 235lbs was so long ago that I've forgotten what it was like to be skinny. Please give Lou the best regards from Donna and myself. Have a good day, and I hope you have many more of them.

Ps. I went to all the trouble of registering myself to write this blog to try and help you understand.......life is too short!!

Godfrey Davies (please note the correct spelling of my name)

from mr rech's comments i would say that the collier county health dept agrees with the federal EPA that managed septic systems are a very, very acceptable means of treating wastewater - and possibly even preferred.
so again why is the city making us spend so much money and going through so much hell with construction the decrease in property values, the decrease in business and rental income?
obviously the supporters of the STRP never checked with the county healt dept.

my favorite quote from mr rech is and it says it all: " The use of decentralized systems and alternates to central sewer are under consideration in many parts of the country and in Florida."

thats exactly what Mr Foster, Mr Neylon and Mr Hall have been trying to tell our city officals all along.

but then again i have to remember - personal agendas of the majority of city councilors seem to trump what best for our environment and community. thats why the Federal EPA was not invited to come to Marco and bring their engineers, environmentalist and scientist to do their studies and give their opinion. No instead we had 4 ego driven, special interest people without any experience in any of these fields make an un-educated and un-informed decision to destroy our island and our community all in the name of home rule.

Marco becoming a city has ruined this island and it is a statewide joke.

Mucko Island is not a desireable place to live right now.

This from wikipedia about septic systems.

"Periodic preventive maintenance is required to remove the irreducible solids which settle and gradually fill the tank, reducing it's efficiency. In most jurisdictions this maintenance is required by law, yet often not enforced. Those who ignore the requirement will eventually be faced with extremely costly repairs when solids escape the tank and destroy the clarified liquid effluent disposal means. A properly cared for system can last for decades and possibly a lifetime".

Notice it says if properly cared for may last fo a life time.

If the cityofmarcoislandinformation is still here maybe it could answer a question for me no one else has been able to? Is the Marco system gravity based or vaccume based? There is a huge advantage to one over the other in hurricane prone cities. Please tell me which one ours is / will be.

Thank you.

cityofmarcoislandinformation,
one more question. Do the storm sewers empty into the sewers leading to the WWTP or are they discharged elsewhere?

Thank you again

Strike:
Storm sewers are not part of a waste water treatment systems. Storm sewers are either discharged into a holding pond/catch basin AKA storm water detention ponds (promoted by real estate agents as "Lakes") or directly into a river, natural lake or other body of water. Does Mucko have storm water detention ponds? If not...it is likely they are discharged into the ocean. Why not call your City's storm water department? Not hard to find this information if you are serious about it.

wikipedia???? gee it can be useful, but taking this source as gospel is stretching your credability Strike. There are better sources.

Strike...a simple Google search found this information which is more reliable:

http://www.doh.state.fl.us/environmen...

http://www.doh.state.fl.us/environmen...

Do you know how to do a websearch?

There are garbage disposers designed for homes with septic systems by Insinkerator. We got one at Expo a couple years ago and use it wisely.

BTV,
yes I can do a web search. No we have no water retention ponds here on Marco. Yes in some areas the storm sewers are drained into the sewer pipes. No I do not need to be versed on septic systems, I have one and have become very familiar with how it works. I believe this is is / was more common in the Northeast / Midwest states. During a heavy rain the sewer plants become overwelmed by the increased water volume. Some manhole covers are even blown off. Maybe I am wrong but I don't think so. I do not believe it is common practice any more but here on marco maybe they want to treat the run off before sending it to the Gulf. I would still like to know what we have, gravity or vaccume based system. I suspect it's gravity based.

Editorial: Marco sewer referendum
Residents should settle the issue with approval

By Daily News staff

Tuesday, June 5, 2007

Marco Island City Council and Marco Island citizens have worked and debated long and hard for years on whether and how to extend sewers to single-family neighborhoods that don’t already have that fundamental service.

By now, after seemingly endless public meetings and even lawsuits, we had hoped the issue had been settled: The island is going to do the right thing by public health and the environment and extend the sewer lines.

But no. Anti-sewer constituents are still out there and are resisting a comprehensive, peacemaking finance plan to raise $88.6 million that is being put to Marco voters. The mail ballots come out this week and are due back at the Collier County Supervisor of Elections Office by June 26.

We believe the finance plan goes the extra mile to accommodate residents justifiably concerned about the cost. The plan caps the assessment for each standard-sized house at $10,000 for those who choose to pay up front. The plan allows others to string out payments with interest for up to 20 years and allows still others to let the next owners of their property pick up the tab, with interest, again within 20 years.

There also would be an estimated property tax increase of 4.5 percent for 25 years and a hookup fee.

It’s either this way or higher utility rates — and at least this way is partially tax-deductible.

This seemingly straightforward proposition ought to be able to be handled by City Council without a referendum. But because it involves bonding and collecting money beyond the city’s legally binding budget cap, a referendum is in order. Actually, the timing, style and substance of the referendum might be ideal. Marco could use an exercise in democracy that gets most islanders moving in the same direction.

Citizens who will be asking islanders to vote “no” raise questions based on fiscal policy, the need for sewers in the first place and even base-level trust in city government. Always fair points. Problem is, we thought they all had been addressed, and then some, a long time ago.

The mail ballot comes in two parts or questions. The first asks whether the city budget cap should be lifted in this case. The second question asks about the finance plan. Voters need to approve both in order for the sewer finance plan to go through.

Our editorial board recommends that they do that, with confidence.

• Who can vote? All 13,918 registered voters on Marco Island.

• More information about the issues? Call Marco Island City Hall, 389-5000, or Fay Biles of the Marco Island Taxpayers Association, 394-3089.

• More information about the voting process? Call the Collier County Supervisor of Elections Office at 774-8450.