This is great news for the CCPS teachers! Teachers deserve more money and better recognition for their efforts.

www.dooley08.com

Thanks!

Bill Dooley

i think, like any event, it has to be viewed live. watching the tape after the fact, especially when the outcome is known, loses the impact.

the parties have fought long and hard. the ending should be viewed face to face.

the only good decision the Board has made IMO.

Seeing as the outcome will be the same no matter what - I think it would be a hoot if the teachers didn't show up on Saturday - what a slap-in-the-face that would be to the Board, denny ,and the chicks - They hate working anymore than they have to -

Thanks to the board for being more reasonable. Teachers, the stakeholders with the most to lose, will now be able to attend. There will be no public comment, but at least the audience will be able to hear the arguments and watch the board members make their decision.

This decision by the board shows a faint movement toward democracy; however, why no public comments "allowed" during a public hearing? Why cannot the issue of drawing back the iron curtain between CCPS Capital Funds and Operating Funds be discussed? Who determines that the issue cannot be put on the November ballot?

I'm glad to see this first conciliatory effort by the board to accommodate meeting times with the work schedules of the public. But I still chafe under the orders to remain silent.

Public school board meetings in Naples will forever be haunted by the image of a sheriff's deputy stealthily and threateningly approaching from behind a speaker during her already severely limited time at the microphone.

Why refuse to allow the referendum on the November ballot to approve moving money from the bloated Capital Funds budget to the lean Operational Funds?

Maybe the slogan "No Teacher Left Behind" ought to be changed to something like the Memphis sanitation workers': I am a man. I ain't going to be quiet no more. Perhaps that insistence on voice is why Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. is now so silent. Maybe his ghostly presence will rise up to bring democracy to the MLK center during our meeting.

"Oh, for thy voice high-sounding o'er the storm,/
For thy strong arm to guide the shivering bark,/
The blast-defying power of thy form,/
To give us comfort through the lonely dark."--Dunbar

Interesting how the Board came up with Saturday as an alternative hearing date. One wonders why they didn't have the guts to offer weekdays - perhaps they were afraid of to many teachers leaving their classrooms to attend?

Maybe the board can give the teachers the day off/WITH PAY, so they can attend and complain about their raises during tough times? Teachers in this county are among the highest paid in the state. Has anyone read what is going on in Lee county? Hiring freeze, people getting laid off. Not to mention administrators and teachers double dipping in drop. Please get rid of these old cry babies. Bring in some fresh new people who will appreicate their jobs, not expecting they are owed something.

I don't care HOW they do it up north!
Oh, wait. Up north, teacher salaries are significantly higher than they are here. Benefits are better too. Retirement is about double what it is here. You don't have to go very far, either. Even in Georgia, salaries are about 25% higher.
Don't tell, "If you don't like it, move!" either. I grew up in Florida. I'm not going to abandon my home, my aging parents, my siblings because you've retired and are too cheap to pay for schools down here.
Either you pony up or YOU move.

This is a classic case of Educational MUNCHAUSEN BY PROXY! Linda Abbott is a master at this - and it looks as though Thompson/Chicks are skilled as well - they throw out the bare minimum and if there is too much squacking, THEN they come back with the WINNING alternative - makes them look like the GOOD GUYS - HAHAHAHAHAHA - The old adage: You can fool some of the people some of the time, and fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool ALL of the people ALL of the time.... would seem to apply with these boneheads........

This is one teacher who won't be at the meeting, no matter which day it is held. It's a done deal, whatever they've already decided will be imposed. I see no point in attending. The teachers who got the raw deal this year are the brand new ones and the ones with seniority. I feel for them, but going to the meeting will change nothing.

TEACHURKIDS I agree with you.
Teachers need to wake up and look around everywhere (both private and public) are cutting salaries, laying off, going thru budget cuts. What makes Collier County teachers/the UNION think that money can magically appear out of thin air when they are giving back millions and cutting numerous jobs?!?! Those of us that still have a job should be happy and deal with it.

Upnorth, I invite you to tour a school and speak with teachers. I think you will find most teachers are not “old crybabies”. I would wager that most teachers are young, relatively inexperienced, and most hail from “up north”. Collier County is doing a good job of chasing away teachers. You can read exit interviews at http://www.fldoe.org/eias/eiaspubs/ and you will see that over the past seven years, the average Florida County had 6.4% of their teachers leave while Collier Count lost 12.6%. If you collect data specific to certain critical shortage subject areas, you will see that about a quarter of them leave every year. Even if Collier teachers make more than those in other counties – IT’S NOT ENOUGH TO LIVE HERE! Instead of working to retain quality teachers, Collier County spends thousands on training new teachers. Each new teacher is forced to spend literally hundreds of hours on reading, ESOL, and operational policy training.
Regarding what you read about Lee County’s cut backs - we are doing the same. Allocations were just made for next year and principals just determined how many positions they will be cutting.
I understand finances may be tight next year, but I believe teachers make more difference in a student’s education than any costly educational equipment, computer, or book. I believe teachers should be paid first.

Hooray for DIFFENDOOFER! Give the teachers more money. They deserve it. 5% across the board.

Umleed - merit pay was shot down because it was primarily based on test scores, namely FCAT scores. Not every teacher teaches either an FCAT subject or in an FCAT tested grade. So how is that a fair judge of quality teachers?

Time had an interesting article on this subject...
http://www.time.com/time/nation/artic...

Note that the merit pay programs with both state and teacher union support use more than one test to judge quality.

cheeseburger - let's not forget the $75 out of pocket fee to be ESOL endorsed, mandatory in FL.

Gator - You have not understood what you read. No teacher is asking to speak - I believe that we all understand what a legislative hearing entails. All we want is to be present, and for the decision to be made in front of us. That way they can count and see how many voters they have each lost when they decide to run again. Each teacher X the hundred we each will vow to influence = a lot of votes! As to the capital and operational funds - no one is asking that they be "comingled". Again, we do understand how the budget works. However, CCPS can get a "transfer" of funds on the Nov. ballot as a referendum. This costs the taxpayer nothing. Better yet, if anyone at the ad center would listen to the voices of experience in the classroom, teachers have been pointing out for years the waste involved in our tech spending and textbook purchasing, just to name two places to cut. Not only that, but at my school, our level spends a small fortune just suppling pencils, pen and paper to students who do not bring supplies. (They do have ipods and cell phones.) Consequently, the teachers purchase most of their own personal office and classroom supplies. I also supply folders and notebooks to my students that don't have them, classroom library books to loan out to students who I know have none at home, etc. This year, I am giving myself a $600.00 raise. No more notebooks, folders, and books. I can't anymore - and like anyone, as much as I love my job, I have to think of my family first. Curtailing wasteful spending could fund significant raises. I have personally written to NDN reporters suggesting a look at this waste, I have declined certain unecessary hardware in my classroom, and written to board members. Apparently, for some reason, these areas are sacrosanct in terms of cutting back.

Upnorth, et al--you have no idea of the work involved in teaching. Most of us work hard everyday until we can work no more. Visit any classroom and you will be dumfounded at the work involved. Asking for a raise that doesn't even begin to keep up with the cost of living is not asking much at all.

Terri10 - you are not alone in cutting back on personal spending in the classroom. Luckily the year is almost over because I have very few pencils and very little paper left to give students who do not supply their own. I am saving all other supplies for next year as I am sure we will be in the same boat going forward.

Umleed,
Did you happen to read some of the statutes that Goodsense was commenting about the other day? Statute 1012.22 mandates things such as differentiated pay, a salary schedule based on community input, and salary based on teacher assessment. I support all of these things and I think Florida was on the right track when they wrote the statute. Unfortunately, Collier County has entered into a collective bargaining agreement that relieves the superintendant from abiding by this statute. As long as neither the union nor the school board wish to negotiate for these items, they won’t be part of our county policy.

Teachers are required to complete CTAS (collier teacher assessment system) which involves documenting our strengths and weaknesses. This system can be used to assist or weed out incompetent teachers, but it does not benefit the competent ones. Since I am forced to do CTAS, and I am successful at it, I wish it would increase my paycheck.

I also already mentioned that critical shortage areas (math, science, reading, esol,…) suffer a higher turnover rate, I wish the county would incorporate a differentiated pay incentive to teach these areas. Science for example may spend thousands on lab equipment that new, untrained teachers do not know how to use. It would be better to pay the existing teachers and let them make do with less equipment. I would also be willing to differentiate between elementary, middle and high school teachers. Different teachers argue about schedules and job difficulty. If one position is less desirable or harder to staff than others, pay more for that. Immokalee teachers get “combat pay” already. More research should be done to see who else deserves such.

I think we need to ask ourselves which is better for teachers and students – should we have collective bargaining when we live in a state where unions are not respected or should we let the superintendant create the salary schedule in accordance with the statutes?

Ps. Umleed,
I should be clear that merit pay should not be based on test scores (neither county wide, state, or federal).

A teacher should do the best he or she can with the student they are assigned. If test scores are factored into salary, it forces teachers to avoid teaching low level classes. If your salary depended on test scores, would you rather teach advanced placement or special ed? And how would a standardized test compare the teaching ability for a culinary arts or physical ed teacher?

There has yet to be a good merit pay plan proposed.

umleed,

When a lot of teachers HAVE been present throughout the entire process, you chose to call it whining. Teachers have been told NOT to send their students out of the classroom when they show up unprepared. Teachers, in general, are NOT against evaluation based on their merits, just the inferior manner CCPS chooses to do so. The CTAS process as it stands is not an incentive process to perform well and improve, as the legislature intends, but a punitive process for not doing what we're told. Instead of raises based on good performance, we face losing a step for poor performance.
BTW, I'm not in the onion, but I'll be glad to stop by your house and "talk."

And the worm keeps turning! The Florida Senate has just approved a 47 million dollar cut to the budget for a program that pays bonuses to teachers that mentor other teachers. The cut also includes the payments for teachers board certification application fees. Let's see how the teachers here can find a way to blame the School Board and Dr. Thompson for the wonderful news!

What a surprise, you find fault with the Time article! A distinguished media outlet does an investigative report on what works and what doesn't, but it fails your personal judgement test. That says a lot about where you are coming from. Not that it surprises me, since you are constantly whining about how the teachers whine. Hypocritical much?

Collier teachers have refused merit programs based on their inherint flaws. Even Time held up the Florida fiasco as a "what not to do" scenario. And that was the WHOLE state, not just Collier, that shot down that ugly bird.

Whats even more shocking is the 47 million dollars in HALF of what the state is giving these teachers as bonuses. I say take it all away and lets spend the money on something worthwhile! Imagine 94 million dollars a year to pay teachers to teach other teachers to teach!

No, Radio, we'll stick to blaming the SB and the Administration for making local decisions that stink. I'll just sit back and laugh when the reports come out that FL can't recruit and retain teachers, since both the incentives you mentioned have proven worth in solving that problem. Those aren't the first cuts and they won't be the last. I'll be keeping my eye on how the local budget worm turns. Let's see how those ESE are cuts play out, shall we?

Umleed, that is correct, I would suggest qualitative methods to assess the quality of a teacher.

Radionews, who better to teach a teacher than a teacher? It seems like the majority of teachers hired in this county are alternative certification teachers. That means we hire college graduates who have never had an education class. They need guidance on how to deal with everyday issues. Some teachers may be self learners, but others occupy a lot of time. That spreads the $450 out to be much less than our standard hourly earnings. When you do overtime, do you make less than your standard wage?

Well teach, maybe all these "cash" incentives taken away will bring in and retain teachers that teach for the kids, instead of the money. I am sure there are plenty of teachers in the US out there that would do that, they are just not teaching here.

sorry "ESE area"

Cheese, I have a job that requires me to stay "up-to-date" in my field. And I pay for that education out of my own pocket, not with state money. If it's good enough for the rest of us, why can't it be the same for teachers?

I saw a guy in Ft. Myers who said he'll work for food. Lets put him in a room with Radio's kids.

LOL - you've got a sense of humor, Radio!

I knew full well going into the profession that I wasn't going to get rich. Heck, I'm not even complaining about the 1% "bonus" on the table now. I was one of the lucky ones who received a step increase. I know plenty of teachers who are off the steps who got nothing. Yes, it was a union decision and we all have to live with it, however it turns out. Doesn't mean we can't fight for more, does it? When all is said and done I'll still be teaching and loving my job.

So what do YOU propose to get those teachers here to Collier county?

Thank you for proving my point once again, Umleed. Tell me, do you need binoculars to see the issue from so far to the right?

So what is YOUR brilliant plan? Wait, let me guess - vouchers!!! Am I right?

oh, the board did this to show good faith, but they already KNOW their decision. New date but same outcome. The teachers know they aren't getting anything this year, but if I were them I wouldn't show up the first week of school ... the week BEFORE the kids come. I've had it up to HERE with CCPS.
Why can't they take that 1% BONUS and change it to a 1% RAISE!?????? That way the teachers will have it again next year...or at least start from there next year?
Good luck, teachers.

The only reason they changed the date is because the FEA lawyers got involved. Anyone that bashes the union should try negotiating these things by themselves or maybe just ask nicely....hahahaha.

Do you judge a shortage by having a room without an adult in it, or is it a room without a certified teacher in it? Umleed, if you are associated with a certain school, ask if that school has teachers who are “out of field” right now. You may also ask if they have any long term substitutes. These are “tricks” to keep positions staffed when qualified teachers aren’t retained.

Umleed said: I'll ask you the same question that every other teacher refuses to answer. Since teachers insist on being lumped together, paid the same and refuse to allow themselves to be judged based on their merits, how are we to determine who the quality teachers are? You say Collier County should work to retain quality teachers but how are we supposed to do that when the teachers themselves won't allow it?"

I would have NO PROBLEM with that. But...you are assuming that Collier will develop a FAIR AND MEASUREABLE means of assessing it's teachers. Listen, we had something like that called CTAS (not for pay, but to determine how a teacher is progressing year to year). I had marks off the charts. WHY? Yes, I am a blasted good teacher, but secondly....my principal loved me. Now, my colleague was an awesome teacher but questioned things a few times. Nothing horrible...just needed confirmation on things sometimes. Oh, to question a principal is a huge no no here. Soooooo, her CTAS was much lower.

If you can come up with a FAIR measurement then I bet EVERY excellent teacher in CCPS would love it. But let's face it. The powers that be would lower your score (subjective) just to save money.

I am quite thankful I am not teaching anymore. I miss the kids dearly, but the rest???????????? Ugh.

umleed said: "All of you teachers that are spending your own money to buy supplies are just wasting money. What happened to kids being sent out of the classroom if they showed up unprepared?"

OMG, your ignorance is amazing. Do you realize that almost 1/3 of the children attending CCPS are from poverty? There are many TItle 1 schools. The children that attend these schools don't come with the proper clothes much less supplies. You just showed how ignorant you really are. We are not just "teachers". We are parents, police, social workers, nurses, etc etc etc............. YOu must be in Seagate or Pelican March.

Seriously, what you said is outrageous. Have you no clue as to the status of the economy and the people that live in Naples? it's not all wealthy. If I were to do what you claimed should be done then I would have 5 students in my classroom every year (when I taught). I'm not BSing you either.

Wow, you just inserted your foot so far down your mouth it's criminal. The world is a far different place than when you and I were in school, Umleed.

Heck, I can't even send a kid to the principal's office for misbehaving (and not a small offense I might add) for fear of being fired. Check into MMS now. I know for a fact those teachers live in fear of sending a child out of the classroom. I'm talking children that throw chairs, tell teachers to "F off" etc.

LOL, you have no clue what it's like out there, Umleed (and gator and whomever else wishes to attack teachers).

YOu may not want them to have a better salary but admit that you have no idea what they go through on a daily basis, ok?

Fine, vouchers it is.

So that means EVERY school that accepts students on a voucher basis must succumb to FCAT as well, correct? After all, how are we going to judge the better education without a uniform measurement tool?

ps: I did not edit. I apologize for my typos. There, attack me now. :)

Then we agree on something, Umleed. I'll accept vouchers as a valid tool once all schools are held to the same NCLB rules that public schools are. Currently that isn't the case.

I fell for nothing! I NEVER asked for a raise. I never paid into the "union" here, either. LOL You fell for it all though. You fell for Bush though, I see. NCLB is a joke! It was not funded properly and there are so many flaws in the tests.

I wish you would take that attitude and help teachers FIGHT for children. We DO complain, but you see, we get fired if we complain too much. I DO NOT WORK FOR CCPS ANYMORE THEREFORE I CAN TELL YOU ALL THAT HAPPENS!

I worked in the Taj. WHAT A WASTE OF OUR TAX DOLLARS. They had meetings to plan meetings. I AM NOT KIDDING! We would start a project and then it just died. I had to meet deadlines for my part of the puzzle and then no one did their part and it just faded into the woodwork. I could have been helping teachers and students during that time, but instead I was preparing stupid slideshows on phonics.

You have NO idea...still...what does on in CCPS. I wanted to be measured on how well I did because I'd make over 100K a year had I been. I wanted to SCREAM at board meetings that I haven't the money to help these children but you people sure do (meaning the board). I wanted to scream at Thompson and her little gal pal that does nothing but cut and paste things she finds on the Internet to look productive.

It's a MESS here and until tax payers do something about it it will not change. So, blame teachers all you want (and yes, many suck and whine they want more money but are having kids to worksheets and color in a 4th grade classroom) but 95% of your REAL teachers (with an education in education, higher degrees, constant professional development) could care LESS about raises. I have said from day one (when this stupid 1% bonus thing started) that teachers who care would much rather have the money doubled and used in their classrooms rather than in their paychecks.

um...you are always a part of the problem and never a part of the solution. A couple of years back you dared me to come up with solutions. I handed you 15. You did nothing with them as a parent and tax payer I see. I couldn't do anything about it because I was a slave teacher and told to keep it zipped. Now I am too sick to fight it. When I get better believe me...I will be running for school board.

I have since left due to health reason. Gee, I wonder why I became so ill? Could it have been all the BS and stress from the board, the taj and people like you?

I loved what I did. I love teaching and always will feel it was my calling. no one, not even you, dumbleed, can change that.

NOW, MAKE A DIFFERENCE DUMBS! please, do something to help the children of CCPS. Go to a title 1 school and volunteer some reading time. THEY ARE IN DESPERATE NEED OF SOMEONE TO CARE!!! You could be that person, umleed.

This just in: The District School Board of Collier County will hold a special meeting at 9 am on Monday, Apr. 7, in the Board Meeting Room of the Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Administrative Center for the purpose of setting a new date and time for the following two Legislative Hearings originally scheduled for Wednesday, Apr. 9:

Collier County Education Association (CCEA) rejection of the Special Magistrate’s decision recommending a 1% bonus for instructional personnel

Collier County Association of Educational Office and Classroom Assistant Personnel (CCAEOCAP) rejection of the Special Magistrate’s decision recommending a 1% bonus for office and classroom assistant personnel

The special meeting is open to the public, and will be televised live on The Education Channel, cable 20.

um: I don't print lies. I have read your posts for 3 years now and you say the same thing over and over and over. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE SOME ACCOUNTABILITY? I invited you into my classroom numerous times back then and you never took me up on it. I WANTED AND NEEDED your help with my low achieving children. They came from NOTHING (living in board shacks on farms) and you never once wanted to help out a child.

What you say is bogus. You are here to insight anger in those that help children on a daily basis.

Teachers, you are the glue that keeps this world from falling apart. You teach and often RAISE children that never had a hope. You inspire and support children that often times would have no one if not for you. Many times you are the only smile they will see during the day. You DO make a difference. I still have students that write me weekly from way back in the early 90s. They are professionals starting families now. YOU DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU'RE TOLD YOU WHINE AND DO NOTHING BUT WANT MORE MONEY. LOL....remember who you are and why you went into teaching.

Well, I am off to the doctor. I will not reply more to umleed. He has proven time and again that he does not want teachers to be paid on a merit system because if he did he would do something about it. He wants to anger you.

LMBO! That's the best laugh I've had all day, Radio! A special meeting at an inconvenient time to discuss changing a special meeting currently scheduled for an inconvenient time to a more convenient time!

This should be televised on Comedy Central, not chnl. 20!

Cheese my child goes to a private school, so I know he is getting a quality education. Not only do I have to pay for that but every year I have to pay out a huge chunk of change in property taxes for the School District. I do my share and have the right to speak my mind when it's my money being spent. But you don't have to worry about that do you Cheese, the county does not tax you for living in a rented trailer in East Naples.

Radio, are you retarded? (It’s okay to use that word – Dr. Thompson does)

Earlier you said, “maybe all these cash incentives taken away will bring in and retain teachers that teach for the kids, instead of the money”. But now it seems like you admit that a quality education is expensive. You must believe that by spending your money on a private school gets your children a better education. Do you think that spending money on a public school might result in the same?

You are also trying to insult me based on the value of my home. I do live out in the sticks. That’s my point exactly – TEACHERS CAN’T AFFORD TO LIVE IN THIS COUNTY. Go ahead, make fun of my 12 year old truck too. I’m sure your bmw is nicer, but hey, teachers don’t need a raise, do they?

So, your solution to the whole problem is to financially protect your children while mocking the rest of us and calling us trailer trash. I’m going to take a guess here, but did you pull your kids out of public school because other kids beat them up everyday?

Sorry that you have made poor life choices Cheese that you cannot afford to live here anymore, but that is not my fault nor do I care. Pack up the trailer and the critters and move to a place where you can afford to live, because I sure as heck am not going to support you. And please don't hate me because I have made the RIGHT life choices and can afford to provide my family a quality lifestyle. All it took was hard work, try it!

hmmm, so hard work should equate to large salary.....what a novel idea. You should go to the school board and suggest that.

Why don’t you enlighten me more? What do you do? What level of education do you have? What is your annual income?

Umleed - I have been present at every stage for 28 years - you don't know me, so please do not make assumptions based on your prejudices against teachers! My students (and I teach only severely struggling reading students) have very high gains every year. Sending students out who come to school without supplies would likely cause me my job as CCPS interprets free and public as "we provide paper and pencils". One teacher I know was reprimanded when she purchased pencils, and sold them for a dime (cost), in order to be able to purchase more. Yet our locational bugets (supplies) are cut. Tell me if you have an idea - I'm sure we've thought of most possibilities!

7 hour days, 5 days a week, with three months a year and holidays off with a degree that is the easiest college degree to get is not hard work to me. And Cheese I am not here to enlighten you, I am just here for my own entertainment.

It’s funny that you find it entertaining to advertise your ignorance. You have no idea what my degree is in and you clearly have no idea the hours that I work. You are also reinforcing the fact that you are selfish, insulting and incapable of teaching others. If you look over my posts, my goal was to inform and educate.

Thank you for enrolling your kids in private school. I wouldn’t want to see an apple that fell from your tree.

Sorry Charlie but I have switched to William Dooley for SB. We have judged him by his activist during the Stadium Naples case several years ago.
He's the one that petitioned Jeb Bush to open the case. www.dooley08.com

Well, looking at your posts Cheese, all I can say is if you are the "typical" teacher in Collier County, no wonder the district is in chaos. Thank God, I can afford a private school, I wouldn't want my child near a teacher that tosses the word "retarded" around as an insult.

Cheese just an added note, if you are "informing and educating" children like you are trying to "inform and educate" us here, you need to be fired. Please have your resignation submitted by the end of the day.

That’s not a bad idea. What would happen to your precious taxes if all the teachers resigned? I wonder if they would raise salaries to attract new ones.

I thought you worked hard. Are you on spring break too? If not, your job must be pretty easy if you can afford to spend all this time playing on the news. You wouldn’t be screwing around at work would you? Maybe we both should resign.

Ps – I already justified the term retarded and I think you keep justifying it more.

You just proved my point Cheese, You are probally the same type of person that would use a rasict term, just because others do. Shows your lack of character. I will no longer dignify your stupidity with a response.

I thought you were replying to entertain yourself, not in effort to dignify my stupidity. I guess that's just one more time that you contradicted yourself.

Well, have fun “working hard” on the computer.

Wow, radio and umleed need to get lives (and perhaps volunteer some of this 'fun time on the net' to help children either in a private or public school setting).

blah to all of them.