It can happen anywhere, some would say, but others call it an isolated incident.
A shooting at a City Council meeting in Kirkwood, Mo., two weeks ago has some local governments talking security, though Marco Island’s City Council members are somewhat divided over how concerned they ought to be.
Naples City Council and the Bonita Springs City Council have both discussed increasing security measures following that shooting, in which six people were killed, including two council members, two police officers, the public works director and the gunman. The mayor and a local reporter were both wounded.
On Feb. 8, the day after the shooting, Councilor Rob Popoff emailed his fellow council members, Interim City Manager Tony Shoemaker, Police Chief Roger Reinke and Fire Chief Mike Murphy to express his concern.
“Yesterday’s shooting at the City Council meeting in Kirkwood, Mo., should be a wake up call to our staff and council regarding the behavior of some attendees at City Council meetings,” Popoff wrote. “The shooter in Missouri had been a disruptive force at City Council meetings for years and actually arrested for disorderly conduct in the past.”
That man, Charles Lee Thornton owed hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines to the city of Kirkwood for illegally parking vehicles and equipment for his construction business on residential streets. Nine days before he carried out the attack, he learned that he had lost a lawsuit against the city.
Popoff indicated before Tuesday night’s City Council meeting that he would bring it up at the end of session, but a longer than expected public hearing pushed the meeting to 9:30, causing the council to wrap up the meeting without discussing security.
Reinke, who has been a regular presence at meetings long before the Kirkwood shooting, said he has already taken steps to increase security, but would not discuss specifics. He said the city is “considering all of our options,” but that he does not have any reason to believe that a similar incident is likely on Marco Island.
“I think there’s a difference between a possibility and a probability,” he said. “Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? I don’t think we have any information to believe that it’s probable.”
While Marco Island does have a record of contentious and sometimes heated public comment during council meetings, Reinke said no resident has ever been forcibly removed from a Marco Island City Council meeting. In Kirkwood, Thornton was removed forcibly from meetings on several occasions, convicted of disorderly conduct twice and the council even considered banning him from meetings.
But Popoff said he still sees reason to fear a similar incident on Marco Island.
“I think that with everything that’s gone on in Marco Island, we need to take it seriously,” he said. “Frankly, I think it should have been brought up by someone before me.”
Popoff said he has felt uncomfortable at meetings in the past, but not all of his fellow councilors echoed the feeling.
“I don’t think you can ever be secure enough to prevent somebody who wants to hurt you from doing it,” said Ted Forcht. “I think we have adequate security. I have never felt nervous during a City Council meeting.”
Outgoing council Chair Mike Minozzi agreed, calling the shooting an isolated incident.
“If someone wants to shoot you, they’re going to do it no matter what,” he said.
Councilor Chuck Kiester called the heightened security measures in courthouses “unfortunate,” stating that similar efforts are unnecessary for council meetings.
“[Courts] probably need it because they’re dealing with criminals,” he said.
Courthouse security measures typically include airport-style screening, with metal detectors and x-ray machines to examine handbags and briefcases. Collier County government has a similar system for commission meetings, implemented in 2006, with restricted parking.
Much of the discussion at a Bonita Springs City Council meeting this week centered on whether police presence and heightened security would have a “chilling effect” on council meetings, making residents feel intimidated.
Councilor Glenn Tucker, who will sit in on his last meeting on March 3, said he does not believe police presence would prevent a violent incident. Indeed, two of the slain in the Kirkwood shooting were police officers. The gunman even used the pistol of one of the killed officers to carry out part of the rampage.
But, Tucker added, “I think our security’s non-existent.”
While both the Bonita and the Naples councils decided to conduct a review of security measures, no specific actions were taken, save for a temporary increase in police presence in Bonita, and a decision to place an officer more prominently in Naples council chambers.
Meanwhile, Reinke is insistent that his department is working to address the safety of council meetings. The Marco Island City Council is perhaps unique, though, in its placement at Council meetings. Sessions are held in the community room on the ground floor of the police department.
While seconds could spell the difference between life and death in an emergency, a staircase is all that separates the council from increased police presence.
Marco Island Code Compliance Board
Scripps Interactive Newspapers Group
Comments » 21
EdFoster writes:
Beowulf, let me bring you up to date. The only "violence" I know of was perpetrated against an opponent of the STRP, Mr. Weins, who had eggs thrown at his home and the tires on his wife's car slashed because he spoke out against the STRP. I believe the police are still investigating the crime.
I also had my mailbox destroyed whether by accident or vandalism I cannot say.
Members of "Celebrate Marco," the love and understanding group founded by Messrs. Arceri, Lazarus and a handful of others, called for those who opposed them to be "shot" at one of their meetings but I'm not aware that anyone actually was shot; the audience was to busy looking at Mr. Arceri smile at the suggestion.
No anti-STRP resident that I know of has ever threatened any councilor with bodily harm although various councilors have threatened citizens with fiscal harm. Nonetheless, I do agree that our councilors should feel safe while conducting city business. Perhaps Mr. Joel can send out for bids to determine the cost of constructing an underground bunker in which Mr. Popoff will feel safe conducting city business. It could be built under the Police Station since a little extra digging in a newly completed area is always helpful to the island economy. The shelter need not provide seating for the public; they can use the current council room and be connected to the new council chamber by a video link. The MPD could obtain the equipment needed to "sweep" the room before each meeting and set up a few mortars and/or other gun emplacements around City Hall to defend it.
Where did I read that a government that fears the people is a dictatorship?
Ed Foster
OldMarcoMan writes:
Hey Ed I bet it wasn't your STRP views that got you egged. I bet you got egged because your an A**
talktome writes:
Don't worry, be happy!!!!! Wa are safe on Marco.
ejburger writes:
ED FOSTER YOU ARE A COWARDLY, DIM WITTED SHALLOW MAN.
You lost your court battles, lost your support and lost your supporters moneys and ran off like a coward.
For some unexplained reason you still feel the need to stick your fragile egotistical nose into Marco Politics.
You do realize that there was a landslide victory where over 5000 citizens said FINISH THE STRP and ENOUGH OF THE NEGATIVITY.
You Mr. Foster were the genesis of this Islands darkest hour.
EdFoster writes:
Mr. Burger,
If an IQ of 173 is DIM WITTED, I plead guilty.
OldMarcoMan,
Learn to read before you write. I'm not the one who got "egged."
Ed Foster
Montel writes:
Wow Mr. Foster!! 173 IQ...OK, now this makes sense; it explains why you are socially retarded.
esmith writes:
Beowulf, Councilor Popoff was threatened, in writing by an uninformed citizen. This citizen threatened him and his wife, 10 year old daughter and 13 year old son. He and other councilors, Monozzi, Tucker, and Trotter have all had slashed tires, damaged mail boxes, water in their gas tanks and other cowardly acts over the last two years.
Beowulf, the meetings were a vile display of grown people acting like spoiled rotten children. I had the opportunity to read Mr. Popoff's letter to council (it’s public record) and the gist of the letter was a concern for city staff, citizens and the council. If you knew Rob you wouldn't insinuate he wrote the letter because he is afraid; have you seen him or do you know anything about his background? He has a very interesting background and I doubt he is afraid of the attendees at council meetings.
I have attended many meetings and my wife and I have been intimidated by unruly crowds and bullies, in fact one time Mr. Popoff walked my wife and I to our car because we were nervous since my wife was booed when she spoke at the podium. Our council meetings were an accident waiting to happen and I agree that increased security for all attendees is in order. At least with the new council many of the real trouble makers no longer come to meetings so the council meetings have been civil thank God! I hope this helps you Beowulf!!
Leroy writes:
173 Foster? Is that in Dog I.Q. years?
Foster, like Kiester, Davies, Erickson, Putnam and Columbo, you are forever irrelevant on Marco Island!!
dbouff writes:
Mr Foster - you seem to have quite the mouth.... May I ask since you are such a know it all so to speak.............why did you not run for City Council?
dbouff writes:
EJ Burger - lets egg him then, I am so with you
Lolala writes:
Ed, these fellows are dangerous and I wouldn't antaganize them further.
Es, if what you say is true why has the property damage committed upon our Council members not been reported in the press? If elected officials are being targeted, that's news and the police should be expending resources to protect the officials. If our police force cannot be depended upon to protect those citizens that have the highest profiles amongst us, who can they protect? As for your depiction of our council meetings, I disagree and believe you have embellished this as you likely did the threats against our elected officials. What did you think about the behavior of the South Seas Condo supporters at the last meeting? Were they disrespectful and threatening towards Councilman Popoff when he suggested their project go back to the planning board? Or when Councilman Forcht attempted to put forward one more additional hurdle after Mr. Woodward had made concessions? Thankfully, to all concerned Councilman Forcht soon realized what Mr. Woodward proposed was indeed the best solution for our City. Do you beleive our citizens should forever remain silent while in chambers even when our Council members fail to think things through?
EdFoster writes:
Mr. Lazarus,
I understand why a high IQ threatens you. Don't you claim to be a lawyer who graduated from an unaccredited law school? Didn't you support Mr. Waldack for city council, a man who claims to have a degree in Aeronautical Engineering from a college that doesn't offer a course in Aeronautical Engineering? If not socializing with you and Mr. Waldack makes me a social misfit, I am pleased to be one. I prefer to socialize with people of higher integrity.
Mr. dbouff,
I'd be a bit careful issuing threats. I'll preserve your blog and turn it over to the police should I be "egged."
Mr. Smith,
Lolala makes a good point. I think it is safe to assume that if a councilor or his/her family were threatened, there would be mention made in the newspaper. There hasn't been. It does seem true, however, that Mr. Popoff has a tendency to take a verbal insult as a threat to life and limb. He does seem a little skittish; he was the one councilor who absolutely refused to even approach Site C with me prior to his election for fear of tracking asbestos home. Not that stupid a decision when you think of it, but proper precautions could have been taken to avoid contamination. Once elected, of course, asbestos was not a particular concern of his.
Ed Foster
dc5799 writes:
Montel {The Moron}
What is your IQ ?
Montel writes:
My I.Q. is common sense, something that you and the socially retarded Foster lack.
Just because you didn't read about threrats to councilors in the paper doesn't mean they didn't happen.
And Foster, the only thing skiddish are the stains in your underwear you coward.
Now kindly leave us alone and bother the people where you live now. We are of no concern to you now.
dc5799 writes:
Montel,
So your IQ is below normal.Don't get so upset that you can't spell.
Hawke1 writes:
Popoff sounds scared to me. What a putz. By the way, several mailboxes were destroyed on my street by the contractors building a sewer. I wonder if I should be concerned about that?
sailingby writes:
Mr. Foster, When you exaggerate and twist the truth it undermines our ability to believe you when you boast you have such a high IQ. You should not have to post a note about how smart you are, it should be evident from your statements and positions. Perhaps you are trying to convince yourself that since you believe you are so smart the rest of us mortals must be wrong. But telling us you scored high on something does not make you right. In fact, lately you have been nothing but insufferable.
I was at the Celebrate Marco event you mentioned. The one several of your counterparts secretly video-typed and attempted to disrupt….and there was indeed one man who in exasperation said the remark you quoted, but he was immediately shushed and there were no others who supported that outburst. It was not condoned by either those present or the leadership of Celebrate Marco.
Your snide comments about Mr. Popoff, Mr. Joel and others with whom you disagree do not show you have learned anything from the battles of the past two years. Learning is a measure of intelligence and you are failing to show your ability to learn. You remain bitter and lashing out rather than accepting the voters’ mandate. You are acting arrogant by attempting to belittle the rest of us who don’t agree with you when you point out (only on your say-so by the way) that you are vastly more intelligent than the rest of us.
We are able to rest peacefully in the aftermath of the decisive mandate given by the well informed voters of Marco Island. This is the referendum you have been calling for. The voice of the people has spoken. Your failure to accept it is your issue to work through.
Learning from our mistakes is truly a sign of high intelligence.
EdFoster writes:
Sailingby:
As I recall the CM meeting, no one attempted to disrupt it. Apparently, Mr. Hall wanted to address the meeting and had obtained Mr. Arceri's okay to do so at the conclusion of the meeting. Mr. Hall sat quietly waiting his turn. When the meeting was adjourned without giving Mr. Hall his opportunity, he began to speak out on his own. I don't blame him; he had been lied to by the organizers of the meeting. It's all on the videotape you refer to ... including Mr. Arceri's smirking face.
Being smart does not make one "right." It does, however, aid one in separating fact from fiction and distinguishing truth from falsehood. The citizens have been sold a bill of goods that sewers are environmentally safer than septic systems on an island like Marco. There is no data to substantiate that, nor has any data been offered. Scientists deal with data, not opinion, not letters of support from those who have no data to back them up. All available data indicate that Marco is safer with managed onsite wastewater treatment than with an island-wide central sewer system.
I accept that the majority of voters on Marco Island want island-wide sewering because that is a fact borne out by the election results. However, that does not make the majority of the voters "right" any more than had they voted that the world were flat would make the world flat. The world is not flat because the scientific evidence shows that it is not flat. Managed onsite wastewater treatment is safer for Marco Island because the scientific evidence shows that to be the case. It has nothing to do with me, you, or the voters. It's simply a fact.
Learning from our mistakes is not a sign of high intelligence, at least not in the sense in which you seem to mean it. Losing an election is not a "mistake"; it is a fact. The "mistake" was on the part of those who chose common folklore over scientific evidence because they were too lazy to research the issue themselves and were seduced by a glib smile and a well mixed martini.
Ed Foster
SRELCARAJO writes:
I have an advice to all with an IQ not as big as Ed Foster!!!!. By the way he is the only intelligent person I know that brags about his IQ, I guess he is not so smart!!! All 6000 of us dummies and misinformed Marco residents spoke loud and clear at the last election. People like Foster, Roger Hall, "alias lolala" are now irrelevant. Foster left town already, Godfrey Davies is on his way out, and I expect Hall will follow. Paradise lost, Paradise regained. Let's all ignore their comments in the future.
EdFoster writes:
And, after carefully considering the pros and cons ... the 3rd grade class voted overwhelmingly for ... five chocolate bars for every lunch.
Ed Foster
Soloman writes:
Foster, we both know that you do not have an IQ of 173. Albert Einstein had a 160 IQ. You haved just proven once again what a liar you really are!
Intelligence Interval Cognitive Designation Common Possessors*
85 - 114 Average Pupils at junior high school
115 - 124 Above average Pupils at senior high school
125 - 134 Gifted University graduates
135 - 144 Highly gifted Intellectuals
145 - 154 Genius Professors
155 - 164 Genius Nobel Prize Winners
165 - 179 High genius
180 - 200 Highest genius
>200 "Unmeasurable" genius
http://hem.bredband.net/b153434/Index...
There should be a special category for Ed Foster, "Unmeasurable Ego and Lies!"
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