What are your thoughts? | Stock market plunges 512 points, worst drop since 2008

A trader works on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange on Thursday, Aug. 4, 2011 in New York. Stocks are plunging in another broad sell-off as investors grow concerned about an economic slowdown in the U.S. and Europe.(AP Photo/Jin Lee)

A trader works on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange on Thursday, Aug. 4, 2011 in New York. Stocks are plunging in another broad sell-off as investors grow concerned about an economic slowdown in the U.S. and Europe.(AP Photo/Jin Lee)

With the stock market drop, how concerned are you about your money?

See the results »

View previous polls »

Editor's note: If you are an investor in the stock market, the Naples Daily News would like to talk to you. Email us at cdesk@naplesnews.com with your name and a contact number. Or just post your comments to this story.

Gripped by fear of a new recession, the stock market suffered its worst day Thursday since the financial crisis in the fall of 2008. The Dow Jones industrial average fell more than 500 points, its ninth-steepest decline.

The sell-off wiped out the Dow's remaining gains for 2011. It put the Dow and broader stock indexes into what investors call a correction - down 10 percent from their highs in the spring.

"We are continuing to be bombarded by worries about the global economy," said Bill Stone, the chief investment strategist for PNC Financial.

Across the financial markets, the day was reminiscent of the wild swings that defined the financial crisis in September and October three years ago. Gold prices briefly hit a record high. Oil fell even more than stocks - 6 percent, or $5.30 a barrel. And frightened investors were so desperate to get into some government bonds that they were willing accept almost no return on their money.

It was the most alarming day yet in the almost uninterrupted selling that has swept Wall Street for two weeks. The Dow has lost more than 1,300 points, or 10.5 percent. By one broad measure kept by Dow Jones, almost $1.9 trillion in market value has disappeared.

For the day, the Dow closed down 512.76 points, at 11,383.68. It was the steepest point decline since Dec. 1, 2008.

Thursday's decline was the ninth-worst by points for the Dow. In percentage terms, the decline of 4.3 percent does not rank among the worst. On Black Monday in 1987, for example, the Dow fell 22 percent.

Two weeks ago, investors appeared worried about the deadlocked negotiations in Washington over raising the ceiling on government debt. As soon as the ceiling was raised, investors focused on the economy, and the selling accelerated.

On Thursday, growing fear about the weakening U.S. economy was joined by concern in Europe that the troubled economies of Italy and Spain might need help from the European Union.

The European Union has already given financial assistance to Greece and Ireland, two countries that have struggled to pay their debts. A financial rescue package for Italy or Spain might be more than the group of countries can handle.

Traders also unloaded stocks before Friday's release of the government's unemployment report for July, which is expected to show weak job growth and perhaps a rise in the unemployment rate, which is 9.2 percent.

Together, they produced "a perfect storm of selling," said Ryan Larson, head of U.S. equity trading for RBC Global Asset Management.

Until a week ago, Wall Street had mostly convinced itself that the U.S. economy would improve in the second half of the year. Gas prices were falling, and Japanese factories were resuming production after disruptions from the March earthquake.

Then one report after another began to show that the economy was much weaker than first thought.

Manufacturing is barely growing. The service sector, which covers about 90 percent of the American work force, is growing at the slowest rate in a year and a half. People spent less in June than in May, the first decline since September 2009.

And the overall economy is expanding at the slowest pace since the end of the Great Recession. It grew at an annual rate of just 0.8 percent for the first six months of this year, raising the risk of another recession.

In an indication of how frightened investors are, Bank of New York Mellon said it would start charging large investors to hold their cash because they are depositing so much. The bank's clients include pension funds and large investment houses that are selling stock and need to deposit the proceeds.

Mark Luschini, chief investment strategist for Janney Montgomery Scott, an investment firm in Philadelphia, said his clients saw the move from stocks into cash as "a parking lot to sort things out."

"With the scars of 2008 still fresh," he said, "some clients don't want to miss the chance to pre-empt further damage should it come."

Wells Fargo Advisers, a financial management company in St. Louis, said clients were more nervous.

"I wouldn't say they're totally panicking. But obviously nerves are rattled," said Scott Marcouiller, chief technical market strategist there. "And I think that is simply because of the speed of the decline."

Other market indicators reinforced the risk-averse mood. Gold, which is seen as a safe investment when the stock market is turbulent, set a record price, $1,684.90 an ounce, before falling to finish the day at $1,659. Adjusted for inflation, gold is still far below the record reached in 1980.

The yield on the 10-year Treasury note fell to 2.42 percent, its lowest of the year, and the yield on the 2-year Treasury note hit its lowest ever, 0.265 percent. Bond yields fall when demand for bonds increases.

The yield on the one-month Treasury bill fell to almost nothing - 0.008 percent. Investors were willing to accept paltry returns in exchange for holding investments they believed to be stable.

The sell-off was broad. All 10 industry groups in the Standard & Poor's 500 index fell. Energy companies lost almost 7 percent, materials companies were down 6.6 percent, and industrial companies lost more than 5 percent.

For a time, Kraft Foods was the only stock to rise among the 30 that make up the Dow industrials. Kraft announced Thursday that it would split in two, with one company focusing on snacks and the other groceries. But the selling eventually dragged Kraft under, too, and its stock finished down 52 cents, at $33.78.

Steep stock market losses like the ones of the past two weeks can be self-reinforcing. A drop in stocks erodes household wealth and raises doubts about the economic outlook.

The result can be what economists call a vicious cycle. Stock losses take a toll on consumer confidence and make people more reluctant to spend money. Consumer spending makes up 70 percent of economic output in the United States.

Kevin Cook, senior stock strategist for Zacks Investment Research in Chicago, said investors' worst fears probably won't come true.

"This is not 2008 again," he said. "We don't have a liquidity crisis, we don't have a credit crisis - this is just profit taking."

Cook said he believes the S&P 500, which closed Thursday at 1,200.07, will trade between 1,150 and 1,250 between now and Oct. 1, at least until investors have enough information to determine whether the economy is in recession again.

Even taking into account the recent declines, stocks are still considered to be in an impressive bull market that began March 9, 2009, when the market reached its recession low.

The Dow closed that day at 6,547. Since then, it is up about 74 percent.

One year ago, the Dow closed at 10,680. About a month later, the stock market began a rally that took the Dow almost to 13,000. The catalyst was an announcement by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke that the Fed was preparing to launch a program to buy $600 billion in government bonds to keep interest rates low and help stocks rally.

The sell-off now comes at a time when corporate profits are growing. For the S&P 500, a measure called the forward price-to-earnings ratio has fallen to about 12, well below its long-term average of 16. That means that investors who buy now are paying less for each dollar in profits.

Based on what an investor now pays for corporate profits, stocks are now trading at their lowest levels in 20 years, said Tim Courtney, chief investment officer of Burns Advisory Group in Oklahoma City.

But few companies were spared in the sell-off Thursday. Just three of the 500 stocks in the S&P 500 moved higher. General Motors fell 4 percent despite beating analyst estimates for its quarterly earnings.

AP Business Writers Dave Carpenter in Chicago, Paul Wiseman in Washington and Pallavi Gogoi and Seth Sutel in New York contributed to this report.

  • Discuss
  • Print

Related Stories

Related Links

Comments » 53

NobodysFool57 writes:

"Bank of New York Mellon said it would start charging large investors to hold their cash because they are depositing so much." You know it's bad when the bankers start screwing the millionaires. Thank-you TeaPublicans, for bringing a long-festering problem to a head with your sell-out to corporate America in the debt ceiling deal the other day. The Koch brothers and their ilk are proud of you!

ajm3s writes:

Which TeaPublicans are you thanking? The ones that voted for the recent debt ceiling or didn't. Or are they all the same?

Or maybe it comes down to the definition of TeaPublican? Nice ring, but how is one to answer the call?

The recent elected representatives were committed and changed the discussion, in spite of their minority status in Congress. In fact, it was their platform in running for the office. So now they are paid off by the Koch brothers? The TeaParty's simple message is very powerful regardless of donor list.

Remember, most prior increases in debt ceilings were perfunctory.

The radical left (includes Obama administration) uses terms that they would not use to describe an actual terrorist, but are free to describe the TeaParty as metaphorically "strapping on their bomb belt".

ajm3s writes:

in response to MarcoIslandWoman:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

So that is why the dollar is now getting stronger as this crisis gains momentum? Watch carefully, this is the unwinding, or de-leveraging, or rebuttal to all the Obama/Bush deficit spending. I could go on, but it will be a long road.

Where there is fear and panic, there is opportunity. Brazil, Canada, Australia!

And yes eventually, America, because we are the largest consumer and innovative class but it will be a long road to turn this crazy socialistic leaning, redistributive wealth ideology, job and innovation killing regulatory body as embodied in Obama and his entourage of "new thinkers".

Remember, Wall Street backed Obama in 2008. Is the party over? My father always told me to follow the money. And in a world crisis, investors will seek refuge in America. But the government has to change its policies which currently stifle capital formation and job growth relative to the world.

RayPray writes:

in response to NobodysFool57:

"Bank of New York Mellon said it would start charging large investors to hold their cash because they are depositing so much." You know it's bad when the bankers start screwing the millionaires. Thank-you TeaPublicans, for bringing a long-festering problem to a head with your sell-out to corporate America in the debt ceiling deal the other day. The Koch brothers and their ilk are proud of you!

"Bank of New York Mellon said it would start charging large investors to hold their cash..."

---Not to worry! I will happily hold all your cash without any fee at all.

"the bankers start screwing the millionaires."

---Never realized people became $ millionaires by keeping their money in zero interest bank accounts....

"The Koch brothers and their ilk are proud of you!"

---Their ilk? ???

---George Soros!

Ruger writes:

We told the liberals that European style socialism yields European style poverty and stagnation.

They didn't listen.

Ruger writes:

in response to MarcoIslandWoman:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

I love the KISS method...lol

There appears to be no plan to govern from the top these days, only spending programs for their own special interests and political games to get a vote. Oh well, I guess this market is what we get when our politicans refuse to balance the budget.

To bad we couldn't learn from the example's of 'what not to do' in the UK...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/e...

LONDON — Fears mounted Wednesday that Europe’s debt crisis is reaching a critical tipping point, spreading from Greece, Ireland and Portugal to the larger economies of Italy and Spain.

captnjimbo writes:

While on the subject of the stock market a 10% drop within a month just does not make sense. In spite of a mixed economic environment large caps seem to be showing great improvement as they are seeing signs of life with dramatically reduced overhead and employees...they have lots of cash and the M&A situation seems to be heating up. We certainly are not in great shape but cars are on the road, people are in stores, real estate seems to be picking up...but increased taxes are going to happen and it has people spooked. It is tough to predict a bottom line into the future, blah blah. It looks to me however that somehow the market is being manipulated...no proof, but a sudden sell off if you are on the front end of it means a bigger gain when it recovers...I think we are being played.

RayPray writes:

in response to captnjimbo:

While on the subject of the stock market a 10% drop within a month just does not make sense. In spite of a mixed economic environment large caps seem to be showing great improvement as they are seeing signs of life with dramatically reduced overhead and employees...they have lots of cash and the M&A situation seems to be heating up. We certainly are not in great shape but cars are on the road, people are in stores, real estate seems to be picking up...but increased taxes are going to happen and it has people spooked. It is tough to predict a bottom line into the future, blah blah. It looks to me however that somehow the market is being manipulated...no proof, but a sudden sell off if you are on the front end of it means a bigger gain when it recovers...I think we are being played.

This is all true.

What the TV talking heads never admit is that the economy is almost humming along fine with only 90% employment.

Among the unemployed I know are many just waiting for the unemployment to run out before looking for the next job.

Others are in worse shape emotionally. During the boom they had high paying jobs with rather vague duties. A buoyant economy could accommodate these sorts, who worked hard but were not really crucial to the business. Now, especially if they are middle aged, they have to face the fact whatever skills they may have had are sadly obsolete.

Their best hope is a government job where is won't matter how irrelevant they are.

You don't find many engineers or hard scientists out of work for long, because their knowledge is genuine.

"increased taxes are going to happen and it has people spooked."

---Think it will more be the freight train of costs for Obamacare hurtling toward us....

WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot writes:

captnjimbo, Ding, Ding, Ding Ding,...We have a winner! Manipulation? Hell Yes! But not to the down side. Every single gain in the market is all thanks to your tax dollars. Thank yourself. Tarp, QE1, QE2, and soon QE3. All these programs will be paid for by you, your children, their children, etc. Fannie needs $5.1 billion more from the treasury as of yesterday. That brings the total North of $100b. The fact that homes are still worth what they are today? Thank your self again. Fed buying mbs securities, backing fannie & freddie, etc, etc, etc.

Reality is starting to set in. Banks are broke. Governments are broke. All the backwards accounting and spending trillions of $ are all about to become worthless. Prepare for what should have happened back in 2008.

captnjimbo writes:

WTF...interesting handle (I used to fly)

You may be right, but I sure hope not. My sense is we are agonizing slowly on the comeback but fear has a funny way of manifesting.

NobodysFool57 writes:

in response to ajm3s:

Which TeaPublicans are you thanking? The ones that voted for the recent debt ceiling or didn't. Or are they all the same?

Or maybe it comes down to the definition of TeaPublican? Nice ring, but how is one to answer the call?

The recent elected representatives were committed and changed the discussion, in spite of their minority status in Congress. In fact, it was their platform in running for the office. So now they are paid off by the Koch brothers? The TeaParty's simple message is very powerful regardless of donor list.

Remember, most prior increases in debt ceilings were perfunctory.

The radical left (includes Obama administration) uses terms that they would not use to describe an actual terrorist, but are free to describe the TeaParty as metaphorically "strapping on their bomb belt".

You don't think an elected official like Erik Cantor isn't treasonous because he is invested in Pro Shares? That fund makes its money by "shorting" government securities. He would have had a windfall in the event of a government debt defaualt. The only reason the GOP caucus got behind Boehner is they were terrified of Cantor, or worse yet, the Minnesota loony tune who would probably replace him in relatively short order.

captnjimbo writes:

rolomokat...thanks for clearing this up for us.

Lafarge writes:

MarcoIslandWoman, You just love tearing into the U.S. and then say you are not anti-American.
You love the biggest failure of a President in our lifetime and side with his cronies. From the beginning this President has caused the biggest loss of respect that this country has ever seen.
Lets all bow down to some Arabian Prince, and put our hands on the Queen of England, shall we now. Welcome to what happens when the welfare recipients band together and vote someone into office. What you want is for all of us to be on State Welfare with no motivation other than to sit home and make babies for additional monies. The downturn you constantly talk about is when you kill motivation to better oneself and that is what we could be heading for. I hope not.

Lafarge writes:

Too add insult to injury, President Obama will forever have the label placed on him of being the first President to cause our Credit rating to drop from AAA to AA+. What else could be expected from a bunch of "have done nothings"?

What percentage of those voting for him had any decent credit rating themselves? So why then should be expect any difference from their choice of leadership. Know nothings voting for a bigger know nothing.

NobodysFool57 writes:

The S&P downgrade of U.S. debt is expected to cost us about $100 Million annually, yet the TeaPublicans say no government revenue increases (higher debt payments are not another tax on us?) which could lead to additional down-grades. Gold and silver commodities are at near-record prices (adjusted for inflation). My advice? Sell your precious metals and invest in brass and lead.

Lafarge writes:

NF57, Do you mean 100 million or 100 billion?

Lafarge writes:

Question, who voted 95% for this President?????

Lafarge writes:

You and most of the national freeloaders called Welfare recipients. Who greet each other with, "pregnant again?" Who's the daddy, this time?

Lafarge writes:

s-----.....HMMMM?
Well then maybe I should get on Welfare and have you and your liberal friends, pay for my life of making more babies and then I would be smart enough to vote for Obama next year.

Lafarge writes:

M.H.....Even in the slightest possiblity that you were conceived by natural means there is still an opportunity for anyone.

NobodysFool57 writes:

in response to Lafarge:

NF57, Do you mean 100 million or 100 billion?

I guess I did err by a factor of a thousand. I don't usually deal with numbers of that magnitude. Sorry.

Ruger writes:

in response to Lafarge:

Too add insult to injury, President Obama will forever have the label placed on him of being the first President to cause our Credit rating to drop from AAA to AA+. What else could be expected from a bunch of "have done nothings"?

What percentage of those voting for him had any decent credit rating themselves? So why then should be expect any difference from their choice of leadership. Know nothings voting for a bigger know nothing.

This is the results of the spending policies Obama implemented and they promised this wouldn't happen!

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money...

"Just a couple of years in that big house in Washington and you and your spendthrift colleagues have managed to blight the most productive economy the world has ever seen. Thank you Mr. President!

Democrats own the downgrade. They fought Republicans and Tea Party supporters every step of they way, and forced a deal which was insufficient. They played class warfare and race politics against arguments that we needed to drastically change our spending habits.

"Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner said Tuesday there is 'no risk' the U.S. will lose its top credit rating amid a new analysis that revised its outlook on American debt to negative.'" -April 19, 2011

Lafarge writes:

Geithner like the rest of the "intellectuals" Obama brought in are like going to the library to find informaion. The information can be had by anybody with the ability to read. "Knowing" what to do with that information takes both the experience and the hard knocks that comes with that experience. Something that neither Obama nor any of his choices have had and have proved themselves incapable from seeing the forest through the trees.
DUMP B.O. in "12"

Ocram (Inactive) writes:

We are really getting the "CHANGE" we can count on! The change you get when incompetents like Obama, Pelosi convice their followers that they have the best answers for this country. Well we justed got kicked in the a** with the results of that "Change". Lefarge, you got it right, Dump B.O. in 2012.

Ocram (Inactive) writes:

Islandeye,

From where he came and how he got to be President will be studied for years.

You may be correct and hopefully, though, you are not.

If this is not the most classic example of the "Peter Priciple" then nothing else could be.

Fossil writes:

All who celebrate the Tea Party and the recent downgrade of our country's ability to get credit, are un-American and should be held accountable. You play with fire and people will be hurt. From day one the Republican party promised to make him a "one term President". They have put up road blocks to every attempt he has made to fix our economy. Well, it is clear to me that the "southern stratey" is working. They will get that "uppitty" blackman out of their White House even if it brings the country down around their ears. The tea party, those who carrry the Bible in one hand and a gun in the other and those who promote them will never accept any responsibility for anything they do. They have succeeded in doing real harm to their country. If you don't like the President then impeach him don't take down the nation. Remember, it is the Congress that holds the purse strings, not the Executive Branch. This Congress alone is responsible for this lack of confidence in our nation, not the President. Our government worked fine until the Republicans and their tea party decided to stop governing by not compromising. Thomas Jefferson is rolling in his grave. It is now time to Tax the rich and force them to contribute to our society or to move to off shore with all their cash.

Ocram (Inactive) writes:

One term President???, for Obama, that is assuming that he has been anything that can be called a President in the first place. He has been a one term fiasco for this country. He has insulted American dignity, he has insulted America's friend's and allies, he has spent Trillions of dollars without regard for our budget, he lets illegals enter this country without regards the residents in border states, his history of what we know of it is fulled with very questionable relationships.

The Presidency should never be a place for on the job training for anyone. Has he done anything correctly? A RESOUNDING NO! For this man I do not think he has learned a thing other than that his possible book smarts have been nothing but a costly failure for both this country and for the respect that other countries have had for us. Have you spent any time reading the comments from overseas, lately. Try it, Obama has been the laughing stock of many of our allies.

Ocram (Inactive) writes:

Obama spent $888 Billion dollars on Welfare in 2010 and will be almost a TRILLION DOLLARS a year in 2011 an so on. How much more can this country absorb for illegals and freeloaders? That is over $3000 in taxes for every man, women and child in this country. How long will that continue and increase?

Ocram (Inactive) writes:

in response to MarcoIslandWoman:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Now we can all decide from where you are coming from.

It was only from the Liberal controlled media was Bush beat up from day one of his term in office. The liberal media has called him the worst president, nobody else. History will show quite a different picture when it comes down to the person who now and for another year and a half occupies the White House.

How easily and conveniently you have forgotten that along with the media produced monkey pictures of Bush. Can you imaging the outcry if that was done of Obama?

Maybe Bush had a deficit of 6.1 Trillion, but how does that compare to Obama's 17+ Tillion deficit and growing.

Your comments regarding elitist Bachmann or Palin have no believing ears to fall upon any longer since you yourself have pushed for over a year for an Elitist High School on this Island.

You can talk the talk but it is obvious that you can not walk the walk. If you were so interested in helping the needy than why has your support of Lely been so negative?

Your are as two faced as any blogger can be. Go help those that need help but not when it interferes with your own little world. How obvious can you get?

Ocram (Inactive) writes:

in response to islandeye1#236971:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Obama has never been "honerable enough" to put a sign like that on his desk. It is always someone else's fault. When something gets done correctly by the Navy Seals or Congress then only does he insert the "I did this and I did that" into his speeches numerous times.
...

Ocram (Inactive) writes:

MarcoIslandWhateveryouare,

As usual you avoid the real questions. My typos have no comparison to your constant incorrect use of english and spelling. So give that B.S. a break.

Now for discussion Why did our "always" upfront president say two weeks ago that we would not have enough money to pay all of our debts by August 4th. Why did he pick on Social Security and the military in those statements and not the WELFARE FREELOADERS. I can tell you why, he knows where his support and votes come from. The spending and debt limit were causing this problem. If that limit was not reached than what was the concern? Why was their a claim by the White House that our credit rating would "not be lowered" last April? It seem that Mr.Tim G. is of the same cloth.

If you give these clowns the credit limit to spend on illegals, welfare and freeloaders in order to garner the vote in the next election they will spend it with no concern for the remainder of this Country. It is you who that has fogged brains or just want this country to destroy itself and become a socialist nation.

Do you really dislike America as much as Michelle Obama did prior to her husband having been nominated for President?

Now answer all the other questions that I have posed to you not just a select few.

You try to burn Republican candidates for being elitist but not the Marco Island Academy. What have they pushed for that you have supported for over a year. Nothing less than an Elitist Private school to be funded by tax dollars. In fact, nothing less than selfish.

Pictures of Bush as a monkey by the leftist media was not worth an answer either?

You are as disingenuous and full of hot air as most who read this blog already know.

Ocram (Inactive) writes:

MarcoIslandWhateveryoucallitnow,

Lets just put it this way. I am not going to lower myself in responding to you unless you post something that is not honest or worth discussing, anything else is a waste of time.

Enjoy yourself!

Fossil writes:

Ocram: Millions of Americans voted for our President and millions of Americans continue to support him. You make a few allegations that have no truth to them. Your words should be directed to those who really are the enemy of the Republic; your tea party and Dick Army. You cannot support anything you have written and you are simply repeating the same lies that the Koch brothers have paid for. Your hate does sound racist and resentful that the black man is still in your WHITE house. Get over it, you'll get your country back when the Republicans and Democrats find a man or woman good enough to fill the job. When overseas get your opinions from media other then that owned by Rupert Murdock. Since Bill Clinton, this President is admired throughout the world and feared by our enemies as the one who notched Osama. He is the President that did go after those who harmed us. Compare that to Bush standing on a pile of rubble saying he heard them. Deeds are what count. The Trillions he spent were necessary to save thousands of manufacturing jobs, thousands of Police and Fire jobs and thouosands of teacher jobs. One third of the stimulas money was a tax reduction and one third sent to the states. He also bought and paid for a bridge on Marco Island. American dignity was lost when they filled the clown car full of those weird right wing Presidential clowns. The bar is really set low and the world is worried. His policies have stopped more illegal border crossings then any President before him. He has also sent back more illegals then Bush ever did. Bush learned OJT. He learned to fight two unfunded wars, initiate an unfunded drug policy and it was his TARP idea that put money back into the banks. I'm with Obama and those who actually went to school and earned their grades not the tea party candidates like the c average Texas Governor. Another clown. I just returned from overseas and the papers are all asking the same question: Has America lost it's mind? Who are these Tea Party people they want to know. I told them. You betchya.

Ocram (Inactive) writes:

What I have been annoyed with is the we have a political leader who had no experience in governing and people are backing everything he does without looking at the results of what he has done.

The blaming of the former administrations got stale after a year. The truth is what Fossil said is that this is not going to change for the better until we get people in there who know what they are doing. This administration does not know how to govern. They blame everyone else for their screw ups and people fall for it and defend it.

Millions did vote for this administration and almost as many millions did not. The truth is this particular administration and I repeat, does not know how to govern and CAN NOT GOVERN and many Americans are waking up to that fact.

Ocram (Inactive) writes:

A final comment for this evening.

I can say that I have been proud of my country since I can remember. We have,hopefully, learned from our past mistakes and try not to repeat them, but that is no reason for me not to be proud of what is still the best country in the world. Good Night.

Lafarge writes:

in response to Fossil:

Ocram: Millions of Americans voted for our President and millions of Americans continue to support him. You make a few allegations that have no truth to them. Your words should be directed to those who really are the enemy of the Republic; your tea party and Dick Army. You cannot support anything you have written and you are simply repeating the same lies that the Koch brothers have paid for. Your hate does sound racist and resentful that the black man is still in your WHITE house. Get over it, you'll get your country back when the Republicans and Democrats find a man or woman good enough to fill the job. When overseas get your opinions from media other then that owned by Rupert Murdock. Since Bill Clinton, this President is admired throughout the world and feared by our enemies as the one who notched Osama. He is the President that did go after those who harmed us. Compare that to Bush standing on a pile of rubble saying he heard them. Deeds are what count. The Trillions he spent were necessary to save thousands of manufacturing jobs, thousands of Police and Fire jobs and thouosands of teacher jobs. One third of the stimulas money was a tax reduction and one third sent to the states. He also bought and paid for a bridge on Marco Island. American dignity was lost when they filled the clown car full of those weird right wing Presidential clowns. The bar is really set low and the world is worried. His policies have stopped more illegal border crossings then any President before him. He has also sent back more illegals then Bush ever did. Bush learned OJT. He learned to fight two unfunded wars, initiate an unfunded drug policy and it was his TARP idea that put money back into the banks. I'm with Obama and those who actually went to school and earned their grades not the tea party candidates like the c average Texas Governor. Another clown. I just returned from overseas and the papers are all asking the same question: Has America lost it's mind? Who are these Tea Party people they want to know. I told them. You betchya.

Fossil, You believe what you wish. The respect you mention is not of Obama it is of our military which he wishes to cut. Stopping more illegal aliens from coming into the country than Bush that, if it is true, is because there are many times more coming across the border than did under Bush because they have no fear of being returned once they get here. He "Obama" bought and paid for our Bridge??? Is that something you really believe? It was our tax dollars in the first place. Your comment about coming from overseas with newspapers is another joke. The ones my family e-mail to me say quite a different thing. They say we have a government that does not know how to stop spending and is being run by a bunch of novices. So if you wish to post facts please do so with all sides of the picture. You can be with Obama and that is your personal choice. This is not someone I trust and that is not a pleasant feeling.

Lafarge writes:

Waking up to a post of M.H. is akin to waking up in a world of disgust. It is people like you who find themselves blogging all night long because they are a lonely pathic souls with misery as their friend. They wish is to make others as miserable as they are. Do you really think in your warped mind anybody truly agrees with your posts? Think again because nobody does, except the other handles you post by.

Fossil writes:

Our military is the best the world has to offer today. Our President is their Commander in Chief. Our military does not operate independently of civilian control. We are a Republic not a dictatorship. The President sets the military's priorites not the Generals. You guys want to set aside the cause of our current economic problems and blame Obama for the results of cascading and continued collatoral damage that Bush policies are still producing? Where is the responsiblity? How can you blame the street sweeper who has to clean up after the street party? Obama's actions didn't cause this mess. Don't blame Obama for the debt problems, they were done by irresponsible lack of book keeping on the part of the the Bush administration. I recall Rumsfeld once declared that budgets are not relevant and are unneccessary. The Pentagon was off budget for eight years. You are seeing the real damage today because the current administration is including the Pentagon and it's war activities in the books. The continued inability of our politicians to govern also contributes to our problems. Not taxing the rich is the dumbest thing we have ever done. When are they going to start making jobs? Never, they don't own any factories and they don't require any employees to move money on a computer to the Bahamas. If you love your country, you will rid us the tea party, the nutcases in Congress that sign pledges and refuse to compromise and all those deadbeats that have accumulated all the wealth but contribute nothing to the good of the nation. You will also shut up the clowns who want to rid us of the EPA, give us dirty water, dirty beaches, dirty air, food filled with chemicals, bad medicine and leagalized stealing by the credit industry. What is wrong with you people? You always support those who want to hurt you most.

Ruger writes:

in response to MarcoIslandWoman:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

How dare those ultra right wing people demand a Balanced-Budget Amendment!

Sie sind obviouly ein Troll, wie Sie nicht wissen, die, was die deutsche Schuldenbremse ist im Grunde, was die Tea Party ist zu fragen, Sie Tool!

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44056004

"What we will likely see is Germany backing the ECB and exacting another price from its partners. The price, in the sense of saying: 'you, Italy, and to a certain extent you, France, just have to do more austerity. I think you will hear much more about this German idea of having a more balanced budget amendment, close to the German 'Schuldenbremse' -- which is the balanced budget amendment - in countries across the euro zone, not just in Germany."

Lafarge writes:

Islandeye, There are no other people on this blog discussing anything with the three liberals above. It is most likely only two or one real blogger. They/He live(s) in a predominately Republican area and are unable for one reason or another, to discuss their warped beliefs in public. Why else do they post as a group of the same 3 and all hours of the night? Probably while their spouses are sleeping. They ar most likely a support group of one. Everyone else who has looked at these blogs laughs and does not bother with them because you can not discuss differing viewpoints with a liberal in a pleasant rational way. Go hug your family and forget these people.

Lafarge writes:

Let them talk to themselves. Everyone one else has learned to skip over them.

Ruger writes:

in response to MarcoIslandWoman:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Our national debt has jumped about 40% during Obama's term, please open your eyes.

Ignorance is bliss?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44039381

What the economy needs, Mr. President, is a strong dose of new incentives, with pro-growth tax reform that flattens marginal rates and broadens the base for individuals and businesses. This includes moving to territorial taxation that ends the double tax on foreign earnings of U.S. companies. Plus, we desperately need a complete moratorium on federal regulations. As Sen. Barrasso recently noted, the government put out 379 new rules on business in July alone, amounting to $9.5 billion in additional costs.

Ruger writes:

in response to MarcoIslandWoman:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Haben Sie anfangen zu trinken heute früh oder so etwas?

Germany has a balanced budget amendment in place, similar to what the tea-party members want. For this reason you attack them here in America?

How dare they!?!

http://econintersect.com/b2evolution/...

Germany's constitution was amended in 2009 to introduce a "Schuldenbremse" (debt brake), that applies to both their federal government and their states. After 2015 the German federal government will be forbidden to run a deficit of more than 0.35% of GDP, while after 2019 the German states will not be permitted to run any deficit at all.

Ruger writes:

in response to MarcoIslandWoman:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

The last time they tried to 'race the tax' during a recession, it ended in the great depression. There is plenty of fat to be trimmed in our budgets, Can You Not See That when the rest of Germany can??

Perhaps you haven't thought your cunning plan all the way through.

You like Schadenfreude, yes?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/ind...

Is_It_True_Partially_True_Or_Not_True (Inactive) writes:

in response to Lafarge:

Let them talk to themselves. Everyone one else has learned to skip over them.

Lafarge, Have you noticed that when someone says to ignore these liberal bloggers, their blogging gets more abusive and long winded. It is like they can not shut themselves off. They must convince all who are around them that they are right.

You are absolutely on the right track. Soon they will see no one will be responding to the tnem and they will know that their perceived majority of themselves is nothing more than that. A perception and not reality. That is what they do not want otherwise why all of the name calling only to get ones ire up? It's an ego boost for them when you respond.

Fossil writes:

Islandeye: The rich do not proportionally pay more taxes then the middle class. To state otherwise is misleading. Only one in four large corportations pay any tax at all. The right wing and Koch brothers have been spreading that malarky for long enough. Any orgainization or think tank that states otherwise was likely funded by those corporations. It's time they paid their fair share.

ajm3s writes:

in response to Fossil:

Islandeye: The rich do not proportionally pay more taxes then the middle class. To state otherwise is misleading. Only one in four large corportations pay any tax at all. The right wing and Koch brothers have been spreading that malarky for long enough. Any orgainization or think tank that states otherwise was likely funded by those corporations. It's time they paid their fair share.

Fossil:

In your past posts, you claim the uncompromising of TeaParty reps. Well in rebute to your claims of misleading, the TeaParty caucus in the House of Representatives did not unanimously vote against the debt ceiling bill.

However, many months ago, I believe every Democrat voted for ObamaCare, truly a bill that was drafted and accepted in an uncompromising atmosphere. Or have you already forgotten how we got to where we are today?

Did I miss something when you claim the TeaParty is organized to such an extent that they act as a single voice, when the debt ceiling vote got 26 members (44%) of the TeaParty reps in the House to vote aye.

Do your own math, I may have a rounding error or perhaps lost the message of significant figures.

Check the TeaParty caucus "sign in" sheet against the official vote tally.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll6...

Ruger writes:

in response to Fossil:

Islandeye: The rich do not proportionally pay more taxes then the middle class. To state otherwise is misleading. Only one in four large corportations pay any tax at all. The right wing and Koch brothers have been spreading that malarky for long enough. Any orgainization or think tank that states otherwise was likely funded by those corporations. It's time they paid their fair share.

Your middle class statement is misleading because the bottom 45% are basically paying no taxes at all these days. Meanwhile Pres. Obama rewards GE CEO Jeff Immelt, known for offshoring jobs overseas, by making him head of his Council on Jobs.

The agenda of the left is class warfare on people that have worked very hard and have been successful. They want to punish them with a higher tax then less successful people.

Take a look at the numbers and you can see that it is a failed policy to begin with, just like so many other programs they propose...

http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/art...

If Congress imposed a 100 percent tax, taking all earnings above $250,000 per year, it would yield the princely sum of $1.4 trillion. That would keep the government running for 141 days, but there's a problem because there are 224 more days left in the year.

http://money.msn.com/tax-tips/post.as...

Around 45% of U.S. households, or about 69 million, will end up in this envious tax position, say Tax Policy Center researchers. Some of those folks will even get money back from Uncle Sam.

Percentage points-wise, that's slightly fewer folks who don't owe the IRS than in 2009. That year, the Tax Policy Center estimated that around 47% didn't owe income taxes.

http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2011...

in office, Obama has utterly failed as a leader and as a politician.

The economic stimulus of early 2009 was the first of many examples of his failed governing style. Instead of proposing a plan to the Democratic Congress, he allowed party leaders to lay out the plan’s specifics, and what we got was a mishmash of pet projects, special interest deals and lobbyist gifts masquerading as an economic stimulus, with a pricetag of $787 billion.

On health care, the same modus operandi. He turned over to congressional Democrats the crafting of the plan with the result being a piece of legislation few Democrats knew the contents of. And because of continuing questions about its constitutionality, it’s a law that today is a drag on the U.S. economy.

The debt crisis was a crisis he allowed to fester by his own inaction. By not proposing a budget to Congress for two years, by ignoring the report of his own debt commission, by calling for fiscal prudence and then proposing a budget that would have added $1.5 trillion to the debt, he rendered himself merely a political footnote.

RayPray writes:

in response to Fossil:

Islandeye: The rich do not proportionally pay more taxes then the middle class. To state otherwise is misleading. Only one in four large corportations pay any tax at all. The right wing and Koch brothers have been spreading that malarky for long enough. Any orgainization or think tank that states otherwise was likely funded by those corporations. It's time they paid their fair share.

"he right wing and Kock brothers..."

So true, between bankrolling American Opera, Ballet, and PBS shows, channeling the ghost of Joseph Welsch to activate the zombie Crypto-Birchers, circa 1959.....

Good news is that Tim Geitner will continue to lead our national economy.

When Obama called up Goldman Sex, they couldn't come up with a better replacement to suggest for him....

RayPray writes:

in response to Fossil:

Islandeye: The rich do not proportionally pay more taxes then the middle class. To state otherwise is misleading. Only one in four large corportations pay any tax at all. The right wing and Koch brothers have been spreading that malarky for long enough. Any orgainization or think tank that states otherwise was likely funded by those corporations. It's time they paid their fair share.

Latest Kock Bros knavery:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic...

Share your thoughts

Comments are the sole responsibility of the person posting them. You agree not to post comments that are off topic, defamatory, obscene, abusive, threatening or an invasion of privacy. Violators may be banned. Click here for our full user agreement.

Comments can be shared on Facebook and Yahoo!. Add both options by connecting your profiles.

Features