FACT CHECK: Missteps by Obama, Romney in first presidential debate

Tonight's presidential debate will be the first time people can make a direct comparison between Democrat Barack Obama and Republican Mitt Romney as they stand face to face.

Tonight's presidential debate will be the first time people can make a direct comparison between Democrat Barack Obama and Republican Mitt Romney as they stand face to face.

A look at political claims that take shortcuts with the facts or don't tell the full story.

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama and Republican rival Mitt Romney spun one-sided stories in their first presidential debate, not necessarily bogus, but not the whole truth.

They made some flat-out flubs, too. The rise in health insurance premiums has not been the slowest in 50 years, as Obama stated. Far from it. And there are not 23 million unemployed, as Romney asserted.

Here's a look at some of their claims and how they stack up with the facts:

OBAMA: "I've proposed a specific $4 trillion deficit reduction plan. ... The way we do it is $2.50 for every cut, we ask for $1 in additional revenue."

THE FACTS: In promising $4 trillion, Obama is already banking more than $2 trillion from legislation enacted along with Republicans last year that cut agency operating budgets and capped them for 10 years. He also claims more than $800 billion in war savings that would occur anyway. And he uses creative bookkeeping to hide spending on Medicare reimbursements to doctors. Take those "cuts" away and Obama's $2.50/$1 ratio of spending cuts to tax increases shifts significantly more in the direction of tax increases.

Obama's February budget offered proposals that would cut deficits over the coming decade by $2 trillion instead of $4 trillion. Of that deficit reduction, tax increases accounted for $1.6 trillion. He promises relatively small spending cuts of $597 billion from big federal benefit programs like Medicare and Medicaid. He also proposed higher spending on infrastructure projects.

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ROMNEY: Obama's health care plan "puts in place an unelected board that's going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have. I don't like that idea."

THE FACTS: Romney is referring to the Independent Payment Advisory Board, a panel of experts that would have the power to force Medicare cuts if costs rise beyond certain levels and Congress fails to act. But Obama's health care law explicitly prohibits the board from rationing care, shifting costs to retirees, restricting benefits or raising the Medicare eligibility age. So the board doesn't have the power to dictate to doctors what treatments they can prescribe.

Romney seems to be resurrecting the assertion that Obama's law would lead to rationing, made famous by former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's widely debunked allegation that it would create "death panels."

The board has yet to be named, and its members would ultimately have to be confirmed by the Senate. Health care inflation has been modest in the last few years, so cuts would be unlikely for most of the rest of this decade.

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OBAMA: "Over the last two years, health care premiums have gone up — it's true — but they've gone up slower than any time in the last 50 years. So we're already beginning to see progress. In the meantime, folks out there with insurance, you're already getting a rebate."

THE FACTS: Not so, concerning premiums. Obama is mixing overall health care spending, which has been growing at historically low levels, and health insurance premiums, which have continued to rise faster than wages and overall economic growth. Premiums for job-based family coverage have risen by nearly $2,400 since 2009 when Obama took office, according to the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation. In 2011, premiums jumped by 9 percent. This year's 4 percent increase was more manageable, but the price tag for family coverage stands at $15,745, with employees paying more than $4,300 of that.

When it comes to insurance rebates under Obama's health care law, less than 10 percent of people with private health insurance are benefiting.

More than 160 million Americans under 65 have private insurance through their jobs and by buying their own policies. According to the administration, about 13 million people will benefit from rebates. And nearly two-thirds of that number will only be entitled to a share of it, since they are covered under job-based plans where their employer pays most of the premium and will get most of the rebate.

___

ROMNEY on the failure of Obama's economic policy: "And the proof of that is 23 million people out of work. The proof of that is 1 out of 6 people in poverty. The proof of that is we've gone from 32 million on food stamps to 47 million on food stamps. The proof of that is that 50 percent of college graduates this year can't find work."

THE FACTS: The number of unemployed is 12.5 million, not 23 million. Romney was also counting 8 million people who are working part time but would like a full-time job and 2.6 million who have stopped looking for work, either because they are discouraged or because they are going back to school or for other reasons.

He got the figure closer to right earlier in the debate, leaving out only the part-timers when he said the U.S. has "23 million people out of work or stopped looking for work." But he was wrong in asserting that Obama came into office "facing 23 million people out of work." At the start of Obama's presidency, 12 million were out of work.

His claim that half of college graduates can't find work now also was problematic. A Northeastern University analysis for The Associated Press found that a quarter of graduates were probably unemployed and another quarter were underemployed, which means working in jobs that didn't make full use of their skills or experience.

___

OBAMA: It's important "that we take some of the money that we're saving as we wind down two wars to rebuild America."

THE FACTS: This oft-repeated claim is based on a fiscal fiction. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were paid for mostly with borrowed money, so stopping them doesn't create a new pool of available cash that can be used for something else, like rebuilding America. It just slows down the government's borrowing.

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ROMNEY: "At the same time, gasoline prices have doubled under the president. Electric rates are up."

THE FACTS: He's right that the average price has doubled, and a little more, since Obama was sworn in. But presidents have almost no influence on gasoline prices, and certainly not in the near term. Gasoline prices are set on financial exchanges around the world and are based on a host of factors, most importantly the price of crude oil used to make gasoline, the amount of finished gasoline ready to be shipped and the capacity of refiners to make enough to meet market demand.

Retail electricity prices have risen since Obama took office — barely. They've grown by an average of less than 1 percent per year, less than the rate of inflation and slower than the historical growth in electricity prices. The unexpectedly modest rise in electricity prices is because of the plummeting cost of natural gas, which is used to generate electricity.

___

OBAMA: "Gov. Romney's central economic plan calls for a $5 trillion tax cut — on top of the extension of the Bush tax cuts, that's another trillion dollars — and $2 trillion in additional military spending that the military hasn't asked for. That's $8 trillion. How we pay for that, reduce the deficit, and make the investments that we need to make, without dumping those costs onto middle-class Americans, I think is one of the central questions of this campaign."

THE FACTS: Obama's claim that Romney wants to cut taxes by $5 trillion doesn't add up. Presumably, Obama was talking about the effect of Romney's tax plan over 10 years, which is common in Washington. But Obama's math doesn't take into account Romney's entire plan.

Romney proposes to reduce income tax rates by 20 percent and eliminate the estate tax and the alternative minimum tax. The Tax Policy Center, a Washington research group, says that would reduce federal tax revenues by $465 billion in 2015, which would add up to about $5 trillion over 10 years.

However, Romney says he wants to pay for the tax cuts by reducing or eliminating tax credits, deductions and exemptions. The goal is a simpler tax code that raises the same amount of money as the current system but does it in a more efficient manner.

The knock on Romney's plan, which Obama accurately cited, is that Romney has refused to say which tax breaks he would eliminate to pay for the lower rates.

___

ROMNEY: What would I cut from spending? Well, first of all, I will eliminate all programs by this test, if they pass it: Is the program so critical it's worth borrowing money from China to pay for it?

THE FACTS: China continues to be portrayed by Romney and many other Republicans as the poster child for runaway federal deficits. It's true that China is the largest foreign holder of U.S. debt, but it only represents about an 8 percent stake. And China has recently been decreasing its holdings, according to the Treasury Department. Some two-thirds of the $16 trillion national debt is owed to the federal government, with the largest single stake the Federal Reserve, as well as American investors and the Social Security Trust Fund.

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OBAMA: "Independent studies looking at this said the only way to meet Gov. Romney's pledge of not ... adding to the deficit is by burdening middle-class families. The average middle-class family with children would pay about $2,000 more."

THE FACTS: That's just one scenario. Obama's claim relies on a study by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research group. The study, however, is more nuanced than Obama indicated.

The study concludes it would be impossible for Romney to meet all of his stated goals without shifting some of the tax burden from people who make more than $200,000 to people who make less.

In one scenario, the study says, Romney's proposal could result in a $2,000 tax increase for families who make less than $200,000 and have children.

Romney says his plan wouldn't raise taxes on anyone, and his campaign points to several studies by conservative think tanks that dispute the Tax Policy Center's findings. Most of the conservative studies argue that Romney's tax plan would stimulate economic growth, generating additional tax revenue without shifting any of the tax burden to the middle class. Congress, however, doesn't use those kinds of projections when it estimates the effect of tax legislation.

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ROMNEY on cutting the deficit: "Obamacare's on my list. ... I'm going to stop the subsidy to PBS. ... I'll make government more efficient."

THE FACTS: Romney has promised to balance the budget in eight years to 10 years, but he hasn't offered a complete plan. Instead, he's promised a set of principles, some of which — like increasing Pentagon spending and restoring more than $700 billion in cuts that Democrats made in Medicare over the coming decade — work against his goal. He also has said he will not consider tax increases.

He pledges to shrink the government to 20 percent of the size of the economy, as opposed to more than 23 percent of gross domestic product now, by the end of his first term. The Romney campaign estimates that would require cuts of $500 billion from the 2016 budget alone. He also has pledged to cut tax rates by 20 percent, paying for them by eliminating tax breaks for the wealthiest and through economic growth.

To fulfill his promise, then, Romney would require cuts to other programs so deep — under one calculation requiring cutting many areas of the domestic budget by one-third within four years — that they could never get through Congress. Cuts to domestic agencies would have to be particularly deep.

But he's offered only a few modest examples of government programs he'd be willing to squeeze, like subsidies to PBS and Amtrak. He does want to repeal Obama's big health care law, but that law is actually forecast to reduce the deficit.

___

ROMNEY: "Simpson-Bowles, the president should have grabbed that."

OBAMA: "That's what we've done, made some adjustments to it, and we're putting it before Congress right now, a $4 trillion plan."

THE FACTS: At first, the president did largely ignore the recommendations made by his deficit commission headed by Democrat Erskine Bowles and Republican Alan Simpson. He later incorporated some of the proposals, largely the less controversial ones. He did not endorse some of the politically troublesome recommendations, such as trimming popular tax deductions like the one for home mortgage interest.

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Comments » 18

Sparky100 writes:

Loved it.
The empty suit was taken to the cleaners.

26yearsonmarco writes:

Let's not pick on poor Klaus because I'm sure he did not sleep a wink last night after seeing his Great One's performance without the use of a teleprompter.

I can't wait to hear what 1Paradiselost has to say.

panola60 writes:

Obama doesn’t understand how the economy works at all. It took a Mitt Romney to school Obama about basic things like how “investing” in losing enterprises, like green energy company Solyndra, took funds away from other more worthwhile endeavors, or how the private sector can lower costs better than government through competition, or how seniors will suffer as ObamaCare cuts payments to Medicare providers, resulting in less doctors who will treat them. While Obama stumbled and stammered his way through each segment of the debate, Romney appeared as almost a fatherly figure, schooling his “crazy kid” on the facts of life.

bondie writes:

Bravo to Romney. Oboma could not even come close to him. Panola60 was right on. Four more years of Obaham will be disastrous to this country.

20_Days writes:

Finally, the public had a chance to see Romney without the biased filters of the media.

Romney is for all of the people not just the "neighborhood" junkies and welfare takers.

He showed charisma, intelligence, empathy and internal strength.

I did not expect anything more from Obama without the teleprompters and sure enough he was what he has always been, unprepared, inexperienced and totally lost like a deer in a cars headlights.

Anyone who was sitting on the sidelines, knows now what the media has covered up for 4 years,
TOTAL INOMPETENCE!

20_Days writes:

Who in their right mind would wish to have a totally incompetent amateur spending another 4 years in the White House?

20_Days writes:

Obama has never had form. It has only been what the media has told you he was.

If you consider his debate against McCain, he showed well because McCain showed terribly.

Obama does not have the experience nor the capability, never has, never will have.

The media dressed him up to look like something he isn't and wishing and hoping just goes so far.

20_Days writes:

The truth is has anyone actually,ever, seen Obama in good form without monitors. Someone else writes and he reads. I do not consider that to be the quality I wish to see in a POTUS.

If that does not really bother you then take a moment and think about it.

Why do we need Obama for if all we get is what is written on a monitor in front of him?

We really do not know what he thinks.

We are denied documents he wrote before he became president. I am really not sure if he actually wrote the papers he presented in college, mainly, because nobody has seen them.....WHY?

There is something here that should never be.

20_Days writes:

Klaus,

If Obama was relaxed then he would have looked at the moderator or Romney. In fact, it appeared that he was afraid, yes afraid, to face Romney a big and probably fatal mistake on his part. He kept looking down in shame, not a signal of any kind of authority.

Do you see that you are now making excuses for Obama? That should make you uncomfortable that you, a blogger, has a president that is causing you to do this?

The public, over the next 3 weeks will see the extent of Obama's failures and you will be on the sidelines cheering the worst president we have had in our lifetime on.

Keep telling us how great he is and maybe just maybe somebody who has been in a coma for the last 4 years will believe you.

RayNetherwood writes:

Don't bother with Klaus the OBAMABOT ..... he'll only repeat his mantra over and over and over, as if that was somehow magical.

1Paradiselost writes:

Romney is a proven liar. He's nothing more than a used car salesman trying to close the deal. Over the past two years if one views Romney's video tapes and can't see the truth about this guy, then that person has a serious problem.

Either that, or we all should question the motives of anyone voting for such a proven liar.

I have confidence that the average American is too smart, and will see thru this used car salesman's (Romney's) constant lies.

Ask yourself this question, how can anyone debate a liar? (see the link below).

How can Romney give the American people a 5 trillion dollar tax cut Without adding to the deficit?

All Republicans should wake up and do the math. I believe the deficit is your major talking point??

It would be nice if Romney would tell us, the American people, HIS PLAN!

This reminds me of Richard Nixon and his "Secret Plan" in 1968 to end the Viet Nam war.

He lied to get elected; so is Romney. Romney IS Richard Nixon.

He may have given the Republican viewers convincing testimony during the debate.

But he will be found guilty for perjury by the judge, the American people.

"Jerry, just remember. It's not a lie... if you believe it..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_PSJ...

20_Days writes:

Keep cheering! The reason that the % dropped so much is because many people out there stopped looking for jobs 140,000 does not make that much of a difference unless there were MANY fewer looking for jobs.

Like most Democrats you will believe any manipulated crap that is shoveled to you by this administration.

20_Days writes:

Any intelligent American would figure out if you have fewer people looking for jobs and you use the new number of people looking for jobs as a base an increase of 114,000 would lower the percent of unemployment rate.

If you used last month's people who were looking for jobs as the base 114,000 you would have increased the unemployment rate's percent.

Actually you would have needed about 140,000 new jobs to keep the unemployment at last month's 8.1% with the posted 114,000 the unemployment rate should have increased to 8.2%.

You got a figure that did not tell the whole story and was just put out to fool the uneducated.

ajm3s writes:

in response to GorchFock:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

K:

Ronald Reagan: Memorable "There you go again"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi9y5-...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It0Dtm...

I believe Mitt Romney's memorable statement for historians to decide: "I do not know what you are talking about?" in response to Mr. Obama's tax breaks for taking companies offshore.

It simply disarmed Mr. Obama so succinctly.

I do not want to discuss the nuances of such a retort by Mr. Romney, other than to offer this blog which concisely reviews the facets of "shipping jobs overseas" with points made by both candidates, though in toto, I reviewed under what policy would make America more competitive.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/10...

Quick analysis: Mr. Obama has never had to engage and hone his skills since I believe he is surrounded by "yes" folks, and a press that is dysfunctional that has never challenged him.

So we got to see both candidates in an unfiltered and raw form.

And first impressions are difficult to erase, so Mitt has overcome the powerful propaganda Obama re-election campaign machine and doting press.

Note: I am still holding to my prediction I offered a long time ago that Mr. Romney will win by a margin similar to Reagan over Carter.

20_Days writes:

The big gamblers in Las Vegas, who have successfully picked election results at a much greater success rate than the "fixed" national polls are also betting on the side that there will be a landslide in Romney's favor.

The Obamas should start packing on their move to Hawaii. But, please, leave the silverware where it belongs!

1Paradiselost writes:

I can't see American's electing a liar!

Last time we did that Nixon was elected.
We all know how that turned out!

20_Days writes:

Well I guess that is too bad, isn't it now!

EastCoastFloridaPerson writes:

in response to 20_Days:

Who in their right mind would wish to have a totally incompetent amateur spending another 4 years in the White House?

What a great intelligent comment!

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