Letter to the Editor: Mini golf course good for Marco

Having been involved in the development of Marco Island as an architect with James Vensel the chief planner, Neil Bahr and the Mackle Brothers, Frank, Robert and Elliott, I feel that I knew the aims that were held in creating a magnificent place for everyone to live and enjoy.

Having a respect for the Civic Association is important; but years ago after Emily and I moved to Marco, after my retirement from Deltona Corporation, I decided to join MICA. I sent a check and letter to them for my dues and membership. Soon after that, I received a memorandum stating that I had to prove “permanent residence” to become a member. I decided that I would not return the check and not join if they did not know me.

Fred Kramer, an attorney on Marco for many years and his wife Marrianne made a great decision, following the old Mackle theme, provide for the old and the young, a fun place to play golf and sit in a garden known as the Marco Golf and Garden Miniature Golf Course, rather than a row of buildings with 25 ft. setbacks on their several lots on Winterberry Drive and across the alley from the Jewish Synagogue of Marco, The Art League and others.

Back in the ‘60s, Frank Mackle, the president of Deltona advised me that the plan was to make Marco available to young and old families, retirees and anyone else; and that is what happened then. The Marco Golf and Garden did just that.

Hearing that the MICA has caused a legal action to be taken to close that facility is shocking and I hope that the City Council of Marco Island will get involved with the matter, having approved it. A vote of the citizens of Marco would be a tremendous project, but the MICA board asking the membership to vote on its use would be a method to seek an opinion of citizens desire of the island.

I recently heard that Marco is one of the top selections for vacations in the USA and that is a good sign of the ole Mackle theme. Evidence of that happened just a week ago. Our son, Herb Jr. took a young family, visiting Marco, to the golf course and enjoyed it very much. They were from Sweden and were very impressed with Marco. I was very impressed with the fact that the family of four each spoke good English.

Lastly, Fred Kramer is an attorney and is aware of legal matters of our community, the ole Mackle theme and our popularity. I ask each one of us to step up and help keep the use of “our little golf course” going. Do you remember the Pitch and Putt course at the original “hotel” The Marco Beach Hotel and Villas, now replaced with the Marriott? Us older ones remember that.

God bless America and that golf course!

Herbert Rosser Savage, Sr.

Marco Island

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Comments » 18

marco97 writes:

Thank you Herb, your knowledge of the Mackle Brothers intent is invaluable to this community. Times have changed but I think they had it right.

2themoon writes:

Herb,
God bless you and God bless America!
Your name should be on City Hall.

WMissow writes:

in response to 2themoon:

Herb,
God bless you and God bless America!
Your name should be on City Hall.

Absolutely agree with you!

WMissow writes:

I would like to clarify here that my agreement is with 2themoon as far as having Herb's name on City Hall in far larger letters than the one presently there.

Herb, I would like to differ with you on your opinion. One can not go around ignoring regulations that have, for the most part allowed Marco to be as wonderful as it is.

There was a violation of these regulations by the Kraemers and they should be held accountable.

Being insulted because somebody did not know a person such as yourself is also no grounds for ignoring the rules that the Mackles set up for all of us.

I would never believe that a person, such as yourself, would wish to have those rules ignored because of a, mostly likely, unintentional personally taken insult. You are much bigger than that!

lauralbi1 writes:

Dear Herb: I know you know that City Council has no control or jurisdiction over MICA when it comes to enforcement of Deed Restrictions. I, like you, also have no issue with the Miniature Golf Course and would like to see it stay. But at this point it appears to be an issue of Mr. Kramer's ego against MICA, and his violation of the Deed Restrictions and MICA review procedures. Th9is could be resolved by a sit down meeting and possibly making some minor revisions. But from what I see, Mr. Kramer is not willing to do this. I liken this to the approval by the Planning Board of the Horse Drawn Carraige idea. It turns out that both properties that were the subject of the request had Deed Restrictions against having "farm animals" (horses) being kept on the property. Has Council approved it, subsequent to the Planning Board Approval, I am certain that MICA would have stepped in and stopped it based upon the Deed Restrictions. City Government only looks at zoning, land use and density, not Deed Restrictions.
We know you and Fred go way back. Why don't you try to convince him to sit down with MICA and try to resolve the issues at hand.
Ed Issler

MarcoDefender writes:

in response to WMissow:

I would like to clarify here that my agreement is with 2themoon as far as having Herb's name on City Hall in far larger letters than the one presently there.

Herb, I would like to differ with you on your opinion. One can not go around ignoring regulations that have, for the most part allowed Marco to be as wonderful as it is.

There was a violation of these regulations by the Kraemers and they should be held accountable.

Being insulted because somebody did not know a person such as yourself is also no grounds for ignoring the rules that the Mackles set up for all of us.

I would never believe that a person, such as yourself, would wish to have those rules ignored because of a, mostly likely, unintentional personally taken insult. You are much bigger than that!

Miss - We get it, you're not a Kramer fan.

Now, let's make amends and move forward. A tear down of the golf course is not just. MICA has distorted their authority on this one, and the right result will eventually come.

MrBreeze writes:

Mr. Herb Savage As I am sure you are aware many folks including myself hold you in great respect for your devotion to Marco Island through the Deltona Corporation. After studying the history of Deltona, Marco Island and the Mackle Brothers and the facts that are presented at the Historical Museum one can conclude that the island was not geared for the "young families" but more towards a second home or home to retire to. I would have to differ with your position on the Mini-golf as a prominent Architect on Marco Island both present and past you of all people know the rules and regulations set by Deltona need to apply to all projects.

To say the Deed Restrictions need not to be part of the process superseeds all of what Deltona was about. Would Frank Mackle allow a carnival in the middle of the island? A race track? Gambling Casino? Adult entertainment? I believe not and that is why Deltona left the Deed Restrictions. Now, I agree MICA may not be the right entinty to control the restrictions. That is a seperate issue, but they still need to remain and to be applied.

I have great respect for yourself, Deltona, and the Mackle Brothers for creating this wonderfull paradise but please do not let me lose your respect by not standing by the very heart of Marco Island that being the wishes of Deltona Corporation via the Deed Restrictions.

marco97 writes:

I remember when Marco had an indoor mini golf course, guess that was ok.

condoseller writes:

It is a shame the minature golf course won't be available to families over the 4th of July weekend; be they residents or visitors. MICA had every opportunity to petition the court during construction. Why wait until the course is open and enjoyed by our neighbors and visitors? It feels ill timed and mean spirited. Since my family is visiting it would have been nice to suggest they enjoy the minature course here on Marco. Instead, they will travel to Naples where I'm sure they will also dine. Their time and money could have been spent on this side of the Jolley Bridge.

gladesgator writes:

Sounds like you were not willing to follow MICA rules then and simply provided evidence of permanent residence. Instead, you just wanted them to know you.

MICA did not deny the golf course, Kramer, like you, simply refused to follow MICA rules.

You miss the entire issue. Moreover, you give MICA little credit for years and years of preserving the Mackle deed restrictions.

WMissow writes:

Condoseller, How could you have purchased here on Marco knowing that there was no place for your family to spend its time and money? I guess we should build a zoo here too so that they do not have to go to Naples for that. Maybe a Costco at Mackle park, too!

MrBreeze writes:

This issue is more than about the Mini-golf it is about the future of Marco Island from Zoning,Building and the Deed Restrictions. If some would have their way the Deed Restrictions would be gone and the free for all will begin.

WMissow writes:

MrBreeze,

Very well stated, to the point.

2themoon writes:

in response to GorchFock:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Id like to start a "Herb Savage city hall" movement on this island but id have so many attoneys and judges threatening me it wouldnt be worth it

marcofriend writes:

in response to condoseller:

It is a shame the minature golf course won't be available to families over the 4th of July weekend; be they residents or visitors. MICA had every opportunity to petition the court during construction. Why wait until the course is open and enjoyed by our neighbors and visitors? It feels ill timed and mean spirited. Since my family is visiting it would have been nice to suggest they enjoy the minature course here on Marco. Instead, they will travel to Naples where I'm sure they will also dine. Their time and money could have been spent on this side of the Jolley Bridge.

Apparently you have not followed this issue very closely. The Kramer's were notified by MICA many times prior to start of building their golf course and many times during the building of it that they needed to address the deed restrictions. The court action was only necessary when the Kramer's refused. The timing of the court order was strictly up to the judge.
I too would like to see the golf course remain open, but Mr. Kramer wanted to dig his feet in and fight MICA and he is on the losing end. It is most interesting since he made money by defending MICA for the very action he has decided to fight.

26yearsonmarco writes:

Sorry Folks, but I have had enough of this argument to last a lifetime.

Return the property to a vacant lot, and deed it to an Owl and Turtle so they can place a nest on it so no one can do any thing with it.

Let the weeds grow knee high so the City can fine the Owl and Turtle $250 per day.

End of problem.

2themoon writes:

in response to 26yearsonmarco:

Sorry Folks, but I have had enough of this argument to last a lifetime.

Return the property to a vacant lot, and deed it to an Owl and Turtle so they can place a nest on it so no one can do any thing with it.

Let the weeds grow knee high so the City can fine the Owl and Turtle $250 per day.

End of problem.

Brilliant..LMFAO!

26yearsonmarco writes:

in response to 2themoon:

Brilliant..LMFAO!

I forgot to mention that Owls really don't give a HOOT about this nonsense, so maybe the lot could also be zoned a Section 8 Housing site for poor Owls and Turtles.

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