'Building' support: Parks committee will campaign on need for Mackle center

Dr. Gerald Swiacki and Michael Levine consider ways to promote enthusiasm for building a new Mackle Park Community Center. The Marco Island Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee met Tuesday in a special workshop to consider action plans. Cheryl Ferrara/Eagle Correspondent

Dr. Gerald Swiacki and Michael Levine consider ways to promote enthusiasm for building a new Mackle Park Community Center. The Marco Island Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee met Tuesday in a special workshop to consider action plans. Cheryl Ferrara/Eagle Correspondent

Marco Island Community Affairs Director Bryan Milk reports to the Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee Tuesday on the new community center that will be Phase Six of the Mackle Park Master Plan. Cheryl Ferrara/Eagle Correspondent

Marco Island Community Affairs Director Bryan Milk reports to the Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee Tuesday on the new community center that will be Phase Six of the Mackle Park Master Plan. Cheryl Ferrara/Eagle Correspondent

Litha Berger, a member of Marco Island’s Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee, shares her support to move forward with public outreach in the hope that attitudes will change about supporting a new community center at Mackle Park. Cheryl Ferrara/Eagle Correspondent

Litha Berger, a member of Marco Island’s Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee, shares her support to move forward with public outreach in the hope that attitudes will change about supporting a new community center at Mackle Park. Cheryl Ferrara/Eagle Correspondent

This architectural rendering depicts the current proposal for a new $2.2 million community center at Mackle Park.

This architectural rendering depicts the current proposal for a new $2.2 million community center at Mackle Park.

— Prepare for a referendum.

Those words from Marco Island City Councilor Joe Batte rang true as Marco Island’s Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee discussed ways to change public sentiment and build support for a new community center at Mackle Park. The committee met Tuesday in a special workshop.

“As I see it, this council is not going to move (on the new community center) until they get a clear mandate from the people,” said Batte. “You have a tough job ahead of you. Embark on a plan to win a referendum. Frankly and honestly, I think that’s how it is going to go.”

He qualified his advice by reminding the committee he was only one of seven and could not speak for the council as a whole. Tempering his plain-spoken opinion, Batte added words of encouragement.

“Don’t be fearful. I think you’ve closed the gap. People are saying, ‘It looks like this could happen.’ ”

The $2.2 million project currently proposed and before council is the next step in Mackle Park’s Master Plan. The city has completed five phases of the plan, spending $2.5 million to update and improve the park’s campus. All work came in on or under budget, Bryan Milk, the city’s community affairs director, told the committee.

Pushback against building a new community center has been strong, and to some committee members, represents a misunderstanding about the value the center could bring to the community.

“Building (the new center) equates to programs,” said Greg West, committee chairman.

Mackle’s existing center opened in 1986 under Collier County’s ownership. The island was less developed and required less from the facility. The park was ceded to the city when it incorporated.

Rich Lutz of the committee called the current center obsolete.

Even if council approved the half-million dollars necessary to repair current deficiencies in the building, it could not offer a greater number of programs without new space.

“We replace cars for the future because they become old and dilapidated,” Lutz said.

“Realtors sell this place (Marco Island) as a lifestyle. Mackle Park offers a piece of that lifestyle,” said Val Simon, committee vice chairwoman. “People, as they age, make this their major domicile. This (the new center) offers more activities as people stay longer.”

The committee asked Milk to prepare for its next meeting a scaled-down version of the presentation he gave to city council on the new center. It also asked to have a booklet produced giving data on usage and related facts regarding the existing center.

Committee members agreed the public needed to hear from them through outreach programs. They plan to saturate the island, promoting new enthusiasm for the project. The campaign will be launched in January using the months following to educate the public. After that time, they plan to poll the island to see if residents are more receptive to the new center.

The referendum could be scheduled for November 2014 when new councilors are elected, Batte suggested.

“It’s the quality of life that we want to protect on this island,” said Litha Berger.

“If people saw the response Mackle Park got to Spooktacular, they’d know how important a new community center would be to this island,” Michael Levine pointed out.

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Comments » 58

lauralbi1 writes:

Bryan: The Farmer's Market brings in hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. Could we not use this money to do a couple of things ?? Pay back the debt for Veteran's park and to fund the new Community Center ??
Or is this money already earmarked for other purposes ?
Ed Issler

laslic writes:

A new community center that will benefit the ENTIRE Island for $2.2M - referendum required; OR $4M renovation of the fire suite to benefit 40 employees - no referendum needed..... Council weigh the logic.

ed34145 writes:

laslic: Another place to play/while away the hours or facilities for those on whom our lives depend?....you weigh the logic

marcoislander writes:

Has not any of these councilors opened their ears The people of marco love the island the way it is Stop pushing your own agenda. Stop spending our money Even if you built it i am sure it would only become a high school annex. and would take years to build leaving a lot of people without our mackel park.

Captian_Cataracts writes:

Another huge waste of money. read what is being said...a new building would lead to new programs...meaning more wasted money!

It's a park! Mow it! Don't try to develop a hole in the middle of the park to dump money in, we've already got too many of those.

Spend the money on getting a hi-tech cardiac ambulance or something of value, not more waste please.

liberator100 writes:

REFERENDUM is not only necessary but it is mandated. Let the Islanders vote before spending any money on this project. Let the private sector build a facility.

MarcoDefender writes:

Referendum? Sure, but each citizen votes, including school aged kids, who are the one of the biggest customers of the park. To lock out their citizen rights because of age would be unfair, dare I say...discriminatory, even.

We have a representative government (elected by vote) to address this. REFERENDUM is the waste of money and is outside the accepted process. If you don't believe it, visit Mackle twice in any one week period, day or night, and it will be busier than you could have imagined. An improved is completely warranted and already overdue.

You want to see some real patronage, visit Mackle during one of the holiday festivals, or on any Saturday during soccer season. A bigger, more outfitted part facility will keep the kids where they should be, in an area designed to maximize their health, outdoor time, skills in sports and teamwork. Otherwise, they will be hanging out with skateboards at Dunkin Donuts, Starbucks and other places. Is that really what you want?

harrisbill239#279036 writes:

A new community center would be a great thing for many people on Marco. I agree, let's build one! BUT, not until we cut our enormous City debt by half, and not until it has been approved at referendum (so that we get input from ALL the taxpayers of the city), and definitely NOT before we completely eliminate the underfunded portion of the pensions and other post employment benefits that we agreed to in our Police and Fire union contracts. We have a legal as well as moral duty to ensure those funds are there when these employees retire. No new community center until then!

ajm3s writes:

Excellent posts for folks that are passionate including the folks that are questioning a larger Community Center.

With regard to the Marco Island lifestyle, I too was smitten, but I loved the openness of the parks and fields for recreation.

I repeat, I am NOT against a Community Center, I am against using precious open park land and assaulting it with more cement, roofing tiles and linoleum.

If you read the comments both here and on tourist sites, you will see an overwhelming impression of Mackle Park primarily on outdoor features, NOT a kitchen or meeting room. I do understand the P&R needs more space for storage etc, but again, there are better options.

We live in a semi-tropical climate with a dry season that extends from November through May, which accommodates outdoor activities. The island was developed with an open air design.

As a thought exercise, how would Marco Island P&K approach improvements in Central Park in NYC. On a relative basis, would Central Park be filled with more "improvements" imaginable, including a Community Center. I do not go to Central Park to hang out at a Community Center. Although there are buildings and the Arsenal is quite a gem, but it predates the park and other buildings serve more for visitor centers given the enormous size of the park:

http://www.centralparknyc.org/visit/t...

Protecting our parks is a good thing, and so is a Community Center, I just do not understand why we need meeting rooms at parks with open space where land is a premium. I may be alone on this, but I was highly impressed when the city improved a vacant corner lot on Collier and Barfield into a small park, as a place to rest while walking.

In an effort to be proactive and offer a plan and vision that has endured the test of time: Savanaugh, GA with open space called squares (22) laid out in 1733:

http://www.pps.org/great_public_space...

I believe open space needs to be protected, not an opportunity for larger expanded building.

For clarification, I am not against improvements on this island, I just firmly believe a Community Center does NOT, I repeat NOT need to be on land set aside as a park for recreation.

But I encourage all to participate in this discussion because I believe this will be presented as a referendum. And for myself, it is not about the cost but more about the Marco Island lifestyle, a lifestyle enhanced from a layout the Mackle Brothers envisioned in 1962, just as General Oglethorpe did in Savanaugh in 1733.

Let's not destroy our parks for more indoor space. Is the function of a park for larger meeting rooms and improved galley kitchens?

Enjoy the outdoors, it is not toxic although it does host a range of life forms from rats, mold and other items that currently plague many city owned indoor facilities.

1Paradiselost writes:

Having school age kids vote is just plain s-----! When kids can pay taxes and die for their country, then they can vote!

Having the taxpayers vote in a REFERENDUM is the best and only way to to settle the issue.

AS liberator100 says: "REFERENDUM is not only necessary, but it is mandated"!

"Let the Islanders vote before spending any money on this project. Let the private sector build a facility".

Marco Defender & Hascle... It's simple, Put your money where your mouth is..

Get an group together who feel like you do. Go to your local bank, take some cash out of your bank accounts and start the project.. Real simple

Several thousand island taxpayers are still paying their 20 year sewer assessments. I'm sure they feel as I do, and don't need another mandated debt from this city!

Who knows, maybe if you contribute enough money to the Mackle Park Building Fund, they will name the building after you.

Northerner writes:

in response to MarcoDefender:

Referendum? Sure, but each citizen votes, including school aged kids, who are the one of the biggest customers of the park. To lock out their citizen rights because of age would be unfair, dare I say...discriminatory, even.

We have a representative government (elected by vote) to address this. REFERENDUM is the waste of money and is outside the accepted process. If you don't believe it, visit Mackle twice in any one week period, day or night, and it will be busier than you could have imagined. An improved is completely warranted and already overdue.

You want to see some real patronage, visit Mackle during one of the holiday festivals, or on any Saturday during soccer season. A bigger, more outfitted part facility will keep the kids where they should be, in an area designed to maximize their health, outdoor time, skills in sports and teamwork. Otherwise, they will be hanging out with skateboards at Dunkin Donuts, Starbucks and other places. Is that really what you want?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...too funny MarcoDesperate! You've really hit rock bottom. There's just no redeeming yourself on this one.
Why should tax paying citizens of MI pay millions and millions of dollars for a new community center so that your kids have a place to "hang out"! I and many residents I bet, have no problem with them "hanging out" at Dunkin, Starbucks, Burger King, McDonalds, skate away kids...

Marcoislander, you're right, MarcoDef thinks she's getting a free high school out of it. Not fooling anyone.

1Paradiselost writes:

in response to Hascle:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Good for you! Sounds like you looking for a metal for your community service?

Put your money where your mouth is. Go to the bank and withdraw it.

Do something positive, start a building fund if you think the project deserves merit, do something positive, quit whining. We the taxpayers are not here to give your children a Cadillac life style.

I saw a bumper sticker the other day that reminds me of this... If you can't afford to feed them, don't breed them!

Don't tell us, the taxpayers how we should spend OUR money. Get a job and pay for it yourself!

We are $250 million dollars in debt as a city. With the 2nd highest water costs in Florida because of people who think like you.

Asking others to finance your luxury projects is a sign of people who are lazy & unwilling to think outside of the box, wanting instant gratification paid for buy others.

Let the people, The taxpayers VOTE!

What your asking is no better than someone on welfare who whats the public to finance a gym for their personal use.

If you can't afford, or like whats here on Marco. Then expect others to finance your wants & dreams, I suggest your the one who should move.

I just love nameless big shots who like spending other peoples money!

Momface (Inactive) writes:

Did anyone figure out the cost per residence for this construction at Mackle Park?

It comes out to be the cost of 2 beers A YEAR if is applied to the tax rolls. Do we not think that this would be worth every penny of that cost if it benefits all of the children, teenagers, adults and seniors on Marco Island?

I think we have larger concerns than this to bicker about.

Konfuzius writes:

in response to Hascle:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

I mean your post is really hard to understand. You work for a better Marco Island and wish people walk away?

Konfuzius writes:

in response to Genuine:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

All I read so far I remember from you is s-----, blank, gassy, hollow, insulting, slanderous, away from the subject, faddy-daddy, small minded twaddle.

6 major mistakes in one sentence. To bad to be not educated.

Your statement:

" You would be best served by returning to the Weimar Republic and obtaining some Limburger (your smell sake) cheese to go with your whine."

1. Weimar Republic was
"Weimarer Republik! To bad to be not educated!
2. I was never there. How can I go back? Time traveling is not invented!
3. Limburger cheese is not a German cheese, it is Belgian cheese! To bad be not educated!
4. I am a big thinker! Not a small sake!
5. The second biggest whiner on this blog is you. Nobody else.
6. My name is Bill Konfuzius! Hard to spell for you. To bad to be not educated!

However - have a nice Sunday at church and three hallelujahs extra for you.

Momface (Inactive) writes:

Why is it every blog turns into a "whose is bigger" contest.

Can we please stay on topic?

MarcoCitizen writes:

Since when does a Marco Island committee get to spend our funds to mount a PR campaign for their unpopular recommendations?

Momface (Inactive) writes:

in response to MarcoCitizen:

Since when does a Marco Island committee get to spend our funds to mount a PR campaign for their unpopular recommendations?

Do you know for a fact that what you say is true? I have heard that there have been some generous people who have "donated funds" for such contingencies who wish to improve the island and not just accept things as they are.

Captian_Cataracts writes:

Is this something the taxpayers need collectively? Of what benefit is a community center & to whom?

Just another attempt at empire building; total waste of the tax dollars that are supposed to be used for essential services not boondoggles.

Momface (Inactive) writes:

Hascle,

That would be the right and fairest thing to do. It is not right for a small minority to decide what is best for all of us.

I hope when all the information available for the pros and cons comes out, all of the Marco Islands tax payers have their voted counted.

ohbrther writes:

Just a thought....shouldn't the city council focus on something more important like the replacement of the Smokehouse Bay bridge and seawalls that support that bridge?????....the Mackle park bldg is not in as bad shape as the bridge which is needed more than a new building. And the patching of the seawall is not an option, it needs to be replaced sooner than later.

MarcoDefender writes:

in response to 1Paradiselost:

Having school age kids vote is just plain s-----! When kids can pay taxes and die for their country, then they can vote!

Having the taxpayers vote in a REFERENDUM is the best and only way to to settle the issue.

AS liberator100 says: "REFERENDUM is not only necessary, but it is mandated"!

"Let the Islanders vote before spending any money on this project. Let the private sector build a facility".

Marco Defender & Hascle... It's simple, Put your money where your mouth is..

Get an group together who feel like you do. Go to your local bank, take some cash out of your bank accounts and start the project.. Real simple

Several thousand island taxpayers are still paying their 20 year sewer assessments. I'm sure they feel as I do, and don't need another mandated debt from this city!

Who knows, maybe if you contribute enough money to the Mackle Park Building Fund, they will name the building after you.

Lost - Nothing s----- about a democratic process. Kids pay taxes, mine do, on their earnings and every time they make a purchase at the store. They are a large part of the target market and thus, an important voice to be heard.

If referendum was mandated, then it would have been offered for a vote already, but it hasn't, because it's not. Thus, the elected representative government must do their work.

There is a group of citizens who want this, so let's find the right solution and get it done. We're talking $6 per household, is that too much? Just because you don't want it, doesn't mean the rest of us should be locked out. Marco Island is a city now, and in order to be competitive and a sought after location, there needs to be valued and used city services and facilities, it's really that simple. If you don't believe the value is there, be sure to visit Mackle at some point over the next several weeks. You'll see 100 soccer kids, or basketball players, or kids playing at the park, people walking around the path, dogs running in the park, cards and clubs meeting in the rec room, residents playing ping pong and pool, little kids in the spray park, or one of another 10 different activities.

Are you ready to change your mind yet?

MarcoDefender writes:

in response to MarcoCitizen:

Since when does a Marco Island committee get to spend our funds to mount a PR campaign for their unpopular recommendations?

Cit - You meant popular recommendation, right? There's significant support for this endeavor, and appears to be very few, but vocal minority, trying to paint this so negative.

I agree, the City has not be careful in the past, with the STRP and Utilities debacles, however, $6 per family is hardly an impactful cost.

MarcoDefender writes:

in response to Northerner:

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...too funny MarcoDesperate! You've really hit rock bottom. There's just no redeeming yourself on this one.
Why should tax paying citizens of MI pay millions and millions of dollars for a new community center so that your kids have a place to "hang out"! I and many residents I bet, have no problem with them "hanging out" at Dunkin, Starbucks, Burger King, McDonalds, skate away kids...

Marcoislander, you're right, MarcoDef thinks she's getting a free high school out of it. Not fooling anyone.

North - Why am I not surprised to read your comments.

I'm taking the family to mini-golf, maybe we can chat more later.

1Paradiselost writes:

MarcoDesperate...

Your kids pay property and income taxes? Your joking, right?

YOU ALSO SAID... "There's significant support for this endeavor, and appears to be very few, but vocal minority, trying to paint this so negative"

If you feel that statement is TRUE. Have the taxpayers vote in a REFERENDUM! That way is the best and only way to to settle this issue.

You said... We're talking $6 per household, is that too much?

For your information Marco Island has 7,517 households... Times $6.00 each is $45,102 a year. How long do expect the taxpayers to pay for this? Oh BTW you forgot the interest on the loan!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Is...

I disclose my source of information, I'm not Rand Paul.

Moving on, Lets look at the facts here on Marco.. The millage rate has gone up 25% in the past 5 years in a down market.
The island homeowners water and sewer bill has gone up 100% in the past 5 years.
We just refinance the cities $250 million dollar debt. That debt was refinanced at the current low interest rates.

Question: When the city refinances that debt lets say 6 years from now, In 2019 the interest rate is 9%, what do you think the millage rate will be then? 50% 100% higher?

As I said in the post above... "Put your money where your mouth is. Go to the bank and withdraw it".

"Do something positive, start a building fund if you think the project deserves merit, do something positive, quit whining. We the taxpayers are not here to give your children a Cadillac life style".

Get ONLY 25 people who feel as you, go to any major bank and ask for the money. The city pays 50% for the fireworks show on July 4th. The taxpayers and business make up the difference.

Why is your group any different?

Momface (Inactive) writes:

1Paradise,

Fact 1: There are over 17,000 housing units on Marco

Fact 2: There are roughly 35,000 residents on Marco

Fact 3: $2.2 million divided by 35,000 is $62.80 per resident to cover the whole project. Just think one dinner out less would cover the construction totally and not a yearly cost, except for maintenance which would probably be a whole lot less than keeping up the old dated facility.

1Paradiselost writes:

MomFace

Click the link for info on Marco Island I posted above. If you have other information with updated numbers, PLEASE POST THE LINK!

Last check there were just over 15,000 residents. Many who only live here for tax reasons and have other properties out of state.

Your math is wrong, children do not pay taxes.. Their parents do!

HERE'S THE MATH

Whats the P&I (Principal & Interest) on $2,200,000.00 million over 20 years at 5%?

The monthly payment is $63,464.30 X 20 years =
$15,231,360.00 MILLION DOLLARS.

Over $13 million dollars just in interest.

Those numbers do not take into account any city salaries/employees or pension fund dollars for those employees! Or upkeep to the building and grounds.

Its this type of thinking that has put our city is so far into debt. Everybody wants instant gratification without lifting a finger and doing the hard work.

I suggest you meet up with MarcoDefender. That's 2 people now who can borrow the money from the bank for your pet project.

Momface (Inactive) writes:

in response to 1Paradiselost:

MomFace

Click the link for info on Marco Island I posted above. If you have other information with updated numbers, PLEASE POST THE LINK!

Last check there were just over 15,000 residents. Many who only live here for tax reasons and have other properties out of state.

Your math is wrong, children do not pay taxes.. Their parents do!

HERE'S THE MATH

Whats the P&I (Principal & Interest) on $2,200,000.00 million over 20 years at 5%?

The monthly payment is $63,464.30 X 20 years =
$15,231,360.00 MILLION DOLLARS.

Over $13 million dollars just in interest.

Those numbers do not take into account any city salaries/employees or pension fund dollars for those employees! Or upkeep to the building and grounds.

Its this type of thinking that has put our city is so far into debt. Everybody wants instant gratification without lifting a finger and doing the hard work.

I suggest you meet up with MarcoDefender. That's 2 people now who can borrow the money from the bank for your pet project.

1Paradise,

Please excuse me but your calculations are way off.

Here are the numbers taken from an standard amortization calculator use for paying off mortgages.

A. $2,200,000 properly paid off and AMORTIZED over a 20 year Loan Summary:

$14,519.03
Monthly Principal & Interest

$3,484,566.30
Total of 240 Payments (20 years)

$1,284,566.30
Total Interest Paid

This is available on any mortgage calculator.

Hope this helps you with the facts.

That comes out to be less than $1 per month for each household on Marco.

Northerner writes:

MarcoDesperate, I don't think mini golf is a good idea. I heard it's quite expensive and I don't think any taxpayer will foot your bill. Instead, take the skateboards with you to the golf center and skate for free in the the empty parking lot they have. Better yet, take the family to see the eagles at our big, beautiful sanctuary we have here...you know, the one over on Tigertail. It's free also.

Paradise has a great idea. Use YOUR money to start a building fund. Maybe Momface, Hascle and Genuine can help you out with that.

1Paradiselost writes:

Momface

You are correct in your interest amount over the term. I'm sorry, I was wrong. But remember this is not a residential mortgage, It's commercial loan.... Commercial loans carry a higher cost both for interest & insurance.

However we are still waiting for your link on how may households are on Marco and the island resident population.

You also did not address the city employee salaries/pension or any other costs. Let alone the total debt this city is in?

So your project now costs the taxpayers 3.5 Million... It went from 2.2 million, now its 3.5 million + costs.

I bet your a renter and have nothing invested!

Hascle... As I said before "If you can't afford, or like whats here on Marco.

Then expect others to finance your wants & dreams, I suggest your the one who should move to a place where you and your family can be happy".

Glad you brought it up..... I hear the Villages is the perfect place for you! I also hear the venereal disease rate is above the state average. One would think from your blogs you have to much time on your hands?

The list is growing... Now we have 4 people who can go to the bank and take a loan for their pet project.

Anybody else?

1Paradiselost writes:

in response to Hascle:

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

In this blog are you MomFace also?

Momface (Inactive) writes:

in response to 1Paradiselost:

Momface

You are correct in your interest amount over the term. I'm sorry, I was wrong. But remember this is not a residential mortgage, It's commercial loan.... Commercial loans carry a higher cost both for interest & insurance.

However we are still waiting for your link on how may households are on Marco and the island resident population.

You also did not address the city employee salaries/pension or any other costs. Let alone the total debt this city is in?

So your project now costs the taxpayers 3.5 Million... It went from 2.2 million, now its 3.5 million + costs.

I bet your a renter and have nothing invested!

Hascle... As I said before "If you can't afford, or like whats here on Marco.

Then expect others to finance your wants & dreams, I suggest your the one who should move to a place where you and your family can be happy".

Glad you brought it up..... I hear the Villages is the perfect place for you! I also hear the venereal disease rate is above the state average. One would think from your blogs you have to much time on your hands?

The list is growing... Now we have 4 people who can go to the bank and take a loan for their pet project.

Anybody else?

If a mortgage for any period is set it is set for the terms of the mortgage.
5% is already high for a residential and would easily be included in commercial application. The insurance varies with the borrower's history of payments and likeliness that such payments will continue in the future.

No, I am not a renter and own several properties on Marco and paying taxes on each one.....so? Why do you try to put down someone who may be renting? The landlord still pays the taxes.

I did not bring up The Villages, thank you!

Please know the facts before you attempt to justify your significant errors.

Either way, it still adds up to a small amount of change when looking at the big picture and using the correct figures.

This is the latest census and it is 3 years old.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/stat....

1Paradiselost writes:

You have the right to your opinion but not your own facts!

How many households/residents are on Marco? Yep!

Moving on, Lets look at the current facts here on Marco.. The millage rate has gone up 25% in the past 5 years in a down market.
The island homeowners water and sewer bill has gone up 100% in the past 5 years.
We just refinance the cities $250 million dollar debt. That debt was refinanced at the current low interest rates.

Several thousands of your neighbors financed their sewer assessments which they are still paying. You say you own several properties... and your not effected by any of this?

Question: When the city refinances it's debt lets say 6 years from now, In 2019 the interest rate then is 9%, what do you think the millage rate will be then? 50% 100% higher? You don't sound like someone who pays property taxes.

Please tell us all YOUR ideas how we are going to payoff Marco Islands debt? Then lower the water and sewer rates?

The city fathers read these blogs and need your ideas. You should be selling your case to them, not me!

Try facts, using 360 degree approach.

I want a new BMW will you buy it for me? Wait... you don't know me, so I'll just have to be happy with the car I have.

BOTTOM LINE... Have the taxpayers vote in a REFERENDUM! That way is the best and only way to to settle this issue!

Momface (Inactive) writes:

1Paradise,

Your statement has nothing to do with you statements regarding the issue this blog is about. If you wish to rant about other issues have a ball.

In most likelihood there will be a referendum, until then have a nice day!

26yearsonmarco writes:

1Paradiselost,

I like your way of thinking, and think you would a good job on the Marco Council.

Konfuzius writes:

in response to 1Paradiselost:

You have the right to your opinion but not your own facts!

How many households/residents are on Marco? Yep!

Moving on, Lets look at the current facts here on Marco.. The millage rate has gone up 25% in the past 5 years in a down market.
The island homeowners water and sewer bill has gone up 100% in the past 5 years.
We just refinance the cities $250 million dollar debt. That debt was refinanced at the current low interest rates.

Several thousands of your neighbors financed their sewer assessments which they are still paying. You say you own several properties... and your not effected by any of this?

Question: When the city refinances it's debt lets say 6 years from now, In 2019 the interest rate then is 9%, what do you think the millage rate will be then? 50% 100% higher? You don't sound like someone who pays property taxes.

Please tell us all YOUR ideas how we are going to payoff Marco Islands debt? Then lower the water and sewer rates?

The city fathers read these blogs and need your ideas. You should be selling your case to them, not me!

Try facts, using 360 degree approach.

I want a new BMW will you buy it for me? Wait... you don't know me, so I'll just have to be happy with the car I have.

BOTTOM LINE... Have the taxpayers vote in a REFERENDUM! That way is the best and only way to to settle this issue!

1Paradiselost the problem is that too many people on Marco Island lie to beat the band and believe their own lies. Much worse, believe their nonsense is true!
You cannot argue with this kind of people. Unfortunately that is a big American problem. The bridge is a small project, health care a big. I can follow your arguments. They are very well written, good thinking and understandable. I follow you.

MarcoDefender writes:

in response to 1Paradiselost:

Momface

You are correct in your interest amount over the term. I'm sorry, I was wrong. But remember this is not a residential mortgage, It's commercial loan.... Commercial loans carry a higher cost both for interest & insurance.

However we are still waiting for your link on how may households are on Marco and the island resident population.

You also did not address the city employee salaries/pension or any other costs. Let alone the total debt this city is in?

So your project now costs the taxpayers 3.5 Million... It went from 2.2 million, now its 3.5 million + costs.

I bet your a renter and have nothing invested!

Hascle... As I said before "If you can't afford, or like whats here on Marco.

Then expect others to finance your wants & dreams, I suggest your the one who should move to a place where you and your family can be happy".

Glad you brought it up..... I hear the Villages is the perfect place for you! I also hear the venereal disease rate is above the state average. One would think from your blogs you have to much time on your hands?

The list is growing... Now we have 4 people who can go to the bank and take a loan for their pet project.

Anybody else?

Lost - Looks like your math skills are lost. Glad Mom was so cordial to you after you try to roast those you don't agree with, regarding a building which looks to cost $62 per family. Wow, what a stretch.

The problem here is that people like you and North are so stuck on principle, and it won't allow you to consider each potential situation on its own merit. Sure, the city failed in many past projects, some of which you listed. I agree with you on that. However, that doesn't mean all city projects now should be chucked, or are meaningless. You can't be that naive, and it's just silly to cry "financial foul" and then just stick your head back in the sand. If the need is there, the cost is justifiable, which I feel at $62 per HH it is, as do many others, than we should move forward. No sense in arguing about it, just agree to be a good community member and provide some outlet for what already is, a great community park and program at Mackle. Like I said, thousands of people show up there each holiday event, and hundreds are there each week with soccer, basketball, kids camps, park fun, etc. What will it take for you to see those "facts"?

MarcoDefender writes:

in response to Northerner:

MarcoDesperate, I don't think mini golf is a good idea. I heard it's quite expensive and I don't think any taxpayer will foot your bill. Instead, take the skateboards with you to the golf center and skate for free in the the empty parking lot they have. Better yet, take the family to see the eagles at our big, beautiful sanctuary we have here...you know, the one over on Tigertail. It's free also.

Paradise has a great idea. Use YOUR money to start a building fund. Maybe Momface, Hascle and Genuine can help you out with that.

North - Thanks for the advice, but I'm all set, thanks. I was just pointing out that it's nice to be able to enjoy some family time at the mini-golf, now that it's open again. The family was there last Friday night, and luckily, we had little wooden coins and half the family got to play for free. Although it is a bit pricey, the market will bear what it can.

Looks like wisdom, and cooler heads prevailed, and MICA realized how silly they looked, and how much negative public feedback they caught from so many islanders for shutting down, and getting a judicial injunction against the landowner, for deed restrictions that officially no longer exist. What a joke, and a complete waste of time for so many parties involved.

tikihut2206 writes:

in response to Momface:

Why is it every blog turns into a "whose is bigger" contest.

Can we please stay on topic?

Thank you, Momface, I so agree with you!!!

tikihut2206 writes:

I am glad to hear the mini golf course has reopened it is fun for the family..really what else is there to do in this Island with families with small children..stop complaining, get a life, and let the people enjoy this Island..I know we want to keep it as our own but we need tourists and the money they bring with them..the taxes are high enough

OutWithTheOldies writes:

Finally some reasonable people surface who realize that not all money spent is money lost. Finally some reasonable people that realize investments like our community center pose a huge opportunity for our community to come together. I read the articles on this site daily and am disgusted near daily when the same old suspects hop on here to slam every idea, project, or endeavor that doesn't keep an extra nickel in their pocket or keep more people from invading their island paradise.
Keep up the good fight, the community center is the right thing to do and it has my vote. Sadly, a lot of the people who will benefit (our children), won't have the same opportunity.

Momface (Inactive) writes:

OutWith.....,

Very well spoken and as time goes on many others will feel the same way.

If we do not do what is best for our children, who do we do it for? Secondly class does not belong on this special island.

1Paradiselost writes:

Having the taxpayers vote in a REFERENDUM is the best and only way to to settle the issue.

AS liberator100 says: "REFERENDUM is not only necessary, but it is mandated"!

It's about fairness for all = Referendum!

Momface (Inactive) writes:

Does anybody know for fact and not opinion whether or not public referendums are legally binding in Florida?

1Paradiselost writes:

Are you an American?

Do you believe in the rule of law?

Democracy = REFERENDUM!

Momface (Inactive) writes:

Rule of Law states that referendums can be either binding or non binding.

I just can not find the answer to whether those used in this situation can/must be one or the other.

Once again, thank you 1Paradise for your opinion.

MarcoFacts writes:

We have over 2500 school age children on Marco Island. (THIS IS NOT A RETIREMENT COMMUNITY) If you wanted a retirement community move to Sun City!! We need to do this for the kids.

1Paradiselost writes:

Is what your suggesting is we live under the same political system that they have in Communist China?

Forget about Marco, If you don't like AMERICA Leave it!

DEMOCRACY = REFERENDUM!

Momface (Inactive) writes:

Once again, 1Paradise you construct and argue about things you know little to nothing about.

OK you win!

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