Comments by OutWithTheOldies

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Written on Replace or repair? Wording for Mackle Park's community center referendum still uncertain:

1Paradiselost, if I had my choice of it, I would have stopped paying your social security years ago- but no one ever gave me that choice, likely because of the fact that the greater good of a community goes beyond the specific needs of ONE individual. Maybe you should have spent less time in law classes and more time learning civics.

In terms of roof durability, if you read the warranty on your square of shingles you'll read multiple exclusions including but not limited to proximity to salt water which voids any such warranty. If by chance you have a 20 year old shingle roof in your current domicile I suggest you take a break from your blog pontification and look up... your roof is leaking.

Quite frankly, I'd be VERY happy to contribute towards a community center.... even if the first person to walk through it's doors would be you and your brethren who upset and moaned the whole way through.

The roof is just one of MANY MANY things. A 27 year old structure built at a time of notorious substandard building practices and failing to meet a slew of current building standards and accessibility requirements is by all intents and purposes: obsolete (perhaps your desire to keep the old building is out of a sense of kinship?). When the cost to remedy these issues is excessive given that it would still leave you wholly under-capacity then a logical approach is to consider replacing the structure.

By the way, the US Treasury is still waiting for your returned Social Security check. After all, you didn't vote for it...

Written on Replace or repair? Wording for Mackle Park's community center referendum still uncertain:

I swear ever time I scroll down on one of these articles I'm floored with people's willingness to simply repeat and regurgitate the uneducated opinion of others. The existing community center was built in 1987, 27 years ago. It's current asphalt shingle roof is 18 years old (8 years past the expected average during of an typical shingle roof).
Since it's construction, there have been at least 7 major revisions to Florida Building codes along with huge changes in Hurricane safety requirements and Handicap accessibility requirements.
In it's current state the building is beyond maximum capacity for events and programs, prevents portions of our population from accessing it depending on their physical limitations, and would require a MAJOR overhaul to bring it anywhere near reasonable standards for a city facility- yet some folks on this site blindly suggest 'repairs' versus 'replacement'? Get a clue and stop offering an opinion based on things you obviously don't care enough about to research a bit. It's the knee jerk response people initiate that makes projects like this so incredibly painful to get done.

If Medicare and Social Security had gone to a referendum, I wonder how many of you would be able to live on Marco Island instead of the cold as heck middle of no where Ohio while paying through the nostrils for commercial health insurance.

Written on The case for space: Marco Marriott details expansion proposal to public:

Ray- I wasn't trying to be silly... I was trying to make a point.

We elect representatives so that we as individuals can live our lives and not have to spend countless hours educating ourselves on the +/- of every single project in our home town/county/state/country. Doing so, for most people, is impossible. Personally working 60 hours a week, I have no time for it and I would say that I'm in the majority. Yet with proposing a referendum for every 1M + purchase that rolls around in this place we basically ask a populous to make a decision based on very little if any real knowledge or understanding of an issue. I would venture to say that most people can't be bothered to make an educated choice every 4 years for 1 office much less every 2 years for dozens of complex decisions. Yet most of the posters here would prefer that to allowing our elected officials (having the time and background to make an educated decision) to make these difficult decisions. Elected officials who the MAJORITY voted for.

Written on The case for space: Marco Marriott details expansion proposal to public:

Maybe we should referendum everything on Marco Island. I heard city hall needed to order a stapler... REFERENDUM! Toner cartridge? REFERENDUM! Personally I'm infuriated with the excessive use of pencils throughout our city departments... Perhaps we need a special committee to review this and provide a presentation at the next council meeting.

Some of you need to get a life. We have a representative form of government- get over it. Choose wisely who you vote for and if you don't like any of the candidates then run for office yourself or quit complaining! Nothing worse than an Island full of armchair politicians.

Written on Residents react to idea of replacing Mackle Park Center:

AJM3- While your thoughts are very well composed and you put forward some good points, I also think that your position is fundamentally flawed.

#1 On what basis do you think it is an absolute necessity for all government sponsored civic programs to be self funded? Community programming serves a valuable function in society and our community despite that its impact cannot always be tabulated on an excel spreadsheet somewhere. It is quite obvious that the community center does not do anything for YOU, but your assumption that it doesn't serve a lot of people is wrong. Sadly, a good portion of them are folks who can't speak up and say it (kids). I suppose that in your world, all National Parks, Schools, Roads, Beaches, and other amenities should charge enough money to not only pay back the money used to create them but also generate enough revenue to be self-sustaining! I think its scary to think about what our country would look like if we had this expectation of everything we did.

#2- Out of our government departments, I would say that P&R has an admirable history of producing income that can be returned to operations. Annual Revenue that comes from the Farmer's Market, Community Center Programs and other enterprises makes a pretty big dent in the annual tab that it takes to cover these great amenities we all enjoy. Adding more space to the Community Center, while obviously not a profitable endeavor (nor should it be) should also bring in more revenue to help defray future operating costs of the new building.
#3- Your comment that you "simply do not believe government should pay or support every iteration of recreational activities that can be provided under other venues for "pennies a day" is sadly misguided. I would argue that it is one of the very purposes of government to help provide opportunity to a wide range of recreational groups. Its is this very diversity that makes our country the incredible place it is. It is our place as a democracy to make sure that these small groups have the same opportunity to meet, collaborate, and enjoy the same way the larger groups do with the benefit of many more resources. Majority rules, minority rights- correct?

I hope that public sentiment continues to shift in this hot button topic. If you're on the fence, take the time and go take a guided tour of the place yourself. I think you will be surprised at what many people here call 'adequate' facilities.

Written on 'Building' support: Parks committee will campaign on need for Mackle center:

Finally some reasonable people surface who realize that not all money spent is money lost. Finally some reasonable people that realize investments like our community center pose a huge opportunity for our community to come together. I read the articles on this site daily and am disgusted near daily when the same old suspects hop on here to slam every idea, project, or endeavor that doesn't keep an extra nickel in their pocket or keep more people from invading their island paradise.
Keep up the good fight, the community center is the right thing to do and it has my vote. Sadly, a lot of the people who will benefit (our children), won't have the same opportunity.

Written on Public tennis courts no longer at Tommie Barfield? Tennis group fighting to keep them in play :

Ray, Perhaps we should have the Eagle donate all the money spent on server space to store you rude, idiotic comments and use that to pay for the court repair? I swear, if ever there were a case for euthanasia- you would be it. Go crawl back into your hole.

Written on Letter to the Editor: Chicken Little – The sequel:

Perhaps the problem is more that all you seem to find are problems? I don't think anyone can argue against measured growth and expansion befitting the level of development of our island community over a given timeframe- the issue arises when all opportunities for progress and improvement are approached with such negativity and antipathy that projects are sunk before even leaving the dock.
Finding problems with everyone else's plan is easy. Where's your plan for IMPROVING our island besides cutting your way to a lower tax statement every year??

Written on Letter to the Editor: Aren’t we more than a residential community?:

I love everyone! I just like my golf clubs better.

www.rebuildmarco.com

Written on Letter to the Editor: Aren’t we more than a residential community?:

I, for one, look forward to seeing that 'blehhh' deltona home next door razed to the ground. Unfortunately, I'll probably have to wait for the old geezers to kick the bucket. Then again, with all that fried food and wax fumes from the car polish- may not be all that long. In fact I'll buy that house and demo it myself, use it to put in a putting green for my McMansion.

Written on Letter to the Editor: Disappointed visitor:

MarcoBiker-
I couldn't be more in agreement. In fact, those are words that some others here could afford to live by.

Written on Letter to the Editor: Disappointed visitor:

marconan-
"If that makes me a hypocrite, then so be it...."

Written on Letter to the Editor: Disappointed visitor:

I truly don't have an issue with people posting their views, however passionate, in regard to these stories. In fact, the candor of the statements and public reaction along with the insightful comments is the reason I bother to scroll down to the end of the page. In my experience, there is always 'more to the story'- and these is a good place to look for it.

I just don't see the need to be an @hole about it when you make your point- especially with petty name calling (whether its in this thread or the hundreds of others where it has been more blatant). If that makes me a hypocrite, then so be it.

Written on Letter to the Editor: Disappointed visitor:

MarcoBiker-
I've got no ax to grind. I'm a full time Marco Resident like many others and just like keeping up with local events.... But Here is a sampling of some of the 18 comments noted above.... tell me if you think these are the sort of things that promote thoughtful dialogue and healthy debate....

"Don't worry Jan, I will write to Dr. Phil about your friend's "Horse Carriage Desire Syndrome". Maybe he can have them on his show & help them. He's been known to provide free rehab for his patients."

"Jan Miller from PA. Mr Breeze from Marco says STAY HOME. STAY AWAY. KEEP OUT."

"Go to Kentucky if you want a horsey ride.
..."

Perhaps my glasses are tinted with the stench of comments sections passed, and in hindsight these comments pale in comparison to others i've seen in the past. I just don't see the point of being an anonymous jerk just because one doesn't agree with another's ideas- I guess thats just politics these days? Sad, nonetheless.

Written on Letter to the Editor: Disappointed visitor:

Wow. Rather amazing that any dissenting opinion outside of the 'Blog Mob's' opinion is greeted with slander and 'get out of Marco' comments.

Personally I'm not a big fan of the carriage ride thing, and would prefer it not clog up our busy streets but I can certainly appreciate another's POV.

Whatever happened to a little respectful debate absent of name-calling? Anonymity breeds stupidity. You want to rip someone else's thoughts? Why don't you sign your name to your post...

Written on Physicians Regional, NCH possible suitors if Marco voters approve 24/7 clinic tax:

Physicians Regional is coming to Marco regardless of the referendum, just not for 24 hour services.

But as NCH figured out a long time ago, overnight 24hr clinic services are not financially sustainable on Marco Island....

If you want to be able to get 24 walk in clinic services on Marco, then you gotta pay for it. Otherwise, just vote NO and move on. Majority wins.

Whats the big deal? I don't understand why every issue becomes an exercise is overstamement by every yahoo with an opinion. Why can't people just have a thoughtful debate about things? The over the moon reaction of some people is just nuts.

If you want 24 hour care from your provider and think $50/year is too much, why don't you see what its like to hire a concierge MD! It might make a difference on which box you mark come November...

Written on Crunching the numbers – Marco Island Budget Sub-Committee delves into city's operating budgets :

Just a few comments to answer some questions...

-Out of 18,000 residents, how many really use the center?

Over 33,000 visits to the Mackle Park community center occurred last year. That was only for activities were attendance is measured.... most do not check attendance/usage.

-A "Taj Mahal" is only such if it is built all at once. If it is built in stages it is "a new center".
-If you add up a 16.8K ft2 building with a second phase gymnasium, do you get something that is eerily reminiscent of the original proposal?

The new plan has two phases (the second phase is optional) Both phases combined of the new plan are 1/2 the size of the original proposal (16k SF vs. approx 32,000 SF)

-I for one like a residential community with simple playgrounds and passive parks, instead of this "planned" growth of CENTERS (community and conference) for every conceivable activity.

I'm glad that you have an opinion. Exercise your right to vote and vote for a candiate who shares your views. If there isn't one, then run for council yourself. If that doesn't work.... then quite frankly: Move. I, for one, enjoy having nearby acitivities and resources in the community that I live in and would welcome an expansion in those services and amenities for what amounts to less annually than what most people spend at the McDonald's drive thru.

-How many centers do we really "need", or is it want? And for the record, a public building (ie. Mackle Park) built in 1985 is considered obsolete and requires razing. Does this mean all buildings constructed in 1985 including homes undergo the same fate because of flood plain concerns?

A building necessitates razing when updating the building to current building code requirements (for public structures) and handicap accessibility is more costly than constructing an entirely new building. How is it that you can decide whether or not a building needs to be updated/improved/replaced when you previously noted that you don't even use it? It sounds to me like you're simply rallying against something that doesn't suit YOU! Wouldn't that make you a special interest?

Written on What's hot? What's not! Marco Island City Council budget subcommittee gets first peek at capital requests for 2013 :

in response to seasonala:

Get real, the host of properties both private homes and public facilities undergo obsolescence, but this does NOT necessitate demolition or expansion on the scale that in reality is a dream design that is based on steroids.

It is an issue of size and scope, which in my opinion is beyond the pale. Just a short time ago,the Mackle Park meeting room once held regular council meetings which are now held down the street on San Marco Road. I would have suspected this provided more availability, but I guess it did not.

If you want a hint of P&R expansion, ask them what they envisioned for Plummer Park, a small passive park on Barfield with 300K of monies. Imagine all the crap they wanted to put in what is essentially a passive park. Ideas included: bandstand, fountain, exercise stations, restrooms, larger parking area.....

See from my perspective, the monies spent on this island are misguided, with all departments coming up with their dream approach. And we have to accept it because......they have a plan?

Well the plan is truly steroidal!

Seasonala,
I think unfortunately you are speaking from conjecture and not necessarily true knowledge of what the current project scope is.

The Existing Mackle Park center is 8,000 Square Feet, it has 1 general purpose room of approx 3500 Square feet. Remainder is Park's and Rec office, Front Desk, Rest Rooms and a small kitchen.

Current new plans call for a building that is 16,000 Square Feet with 6 general purpose rooms (of varying sizes allowing for different size functions to be going on simultaneously), restrooms and building/PR staff.

What part of this is exhorbitant or on steroids? At the current projection of 2.5 million for the building your looking at construction costs around $160/SF. Not sure if you've ever built anything on Marco but thats a pretty great deal and not a pie in the sky estimate with granite countertops and marble floors sort of project.

Why do you feel like trashing a project you obviously have very little knowledge of? The current building is not accessibile to new users for 8 months out of the year because of it's current space constraints yet you feel like what we currently have is just fine? On what basis?

Is it just because you personally feel that you wouldn't use the facility that you think it is a bad idea?

I'm sorry, but I just don't get how people can demonize something that could really be an assset to the community and will cost them less than a trip for 2 to McDonald's on a yearly basis... I guess its all about the "ME"

Written on What's hot? What's not! Marco Island City Council budget subcommittee gets first peek at capital requests for 2013 :

The Mackle Park Community Center Project is a truly worthwhile project and it is so incredibly frustrating to hear people discuss a project that they have absolutely no knowledge of the details.

FACT: The current structure is completely outdated, code noncompliant, poorly hurricane resistant, and totally insufficient in terms of capacity.
The existing structure has been at maximum capacity for 3+ years preventing valuable programmming and community services from coming to Marco Island. Continuing education programs, health and fitness courses, wellness programs, community events, and general purpose meeting space are all prevented from coming to marco as a result.
The existing structure is not ADA compliant. It is not built at the appropriate flood levels, and is not hurricane rated. A full study of the issue in 2005 found the existing structure would be more expensive to renovate than replace given its poor underlying design and structure.

I, like many others, understand the needs for fiscal responsibility. And as is en vogue these days- it seems that dealing with expenses with a heavy dose of skepticism is appropriate. This does not, however, mean that every worthwhile project needs to be decimated with the drone of negativity.

From the infomation that I have seen, the expanded space and facilities from building a new community center and resulting increase in revenues from space rentals and adding programming would cover a large part of the annual finance payment. Perhaps leaving an annual cost to the taxpayer of 50-100k dollars (a cost that would go away after the note is paid off). What does this mean in actually dollars on our tax bill? for a Single family home of around 400,000 value? About 7 dollars annnually.

Parks and Recreation has shown a knack for providing a valuable product and service the community at a nominal cost (see Farmer's Market, Seafood Festival, Veterans Park as projects that have cost the taxpayer little or nothing and even generated revenue for the city)..... I think we sould give them a chance to present their case completely before we ruin an opportunity to bring a wonderful amenity to our beautiful island for almost NOTHING!

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