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Well Godfrey, that's interesting. Last year you told me your blog name was lowus, we even collaborated on a few blogs, did you have a sex change since then.
I may have called you a few choice names in the past, as have many you think are your friends, but stupid was not one of them, so 6'6" and 235 lbs does not concern me.
And leave out all the big words and use pictures so Godfrey/lowus can understand it.
Roger, I am so very happy that we can once again agree on something. "So much for my attempt for an honest debate."
Oracle, I don't need an anonymous name to deal with jerks like you. I have sworn off these blogs because of a-- h---'s like you. I'd like to tell you a story about your your mother but I have too much class. Call me I'm in the book you f#$@ing coward.
Ray
Ed, alzheimer's I think not, maybe too much of that clean fresh NC mountian air. The only contracts I have at my disposal, to refer to, are the South collier and the North Collier contracts and neither have that clause as you stated it. It just doesn't make sense. First, who get's to say what a contractors profit is that's not something that is usually in a contract. Second, there are many, many factors in determining just what a contractor’s to date cost is, who will determine this. I could be wrong and it appears that you don't know yourself as you appear to be working from memory. I think it would be easier if you checked with Butch since that's where it came from.
That said, I think you may be missing my point. Only those that get sewers will pay. It is a fact/law that if you don't receive a special benefit, i.e. sewers, you cannot be specially assessed, it’s the law. This is why the edge to edge paving was pulled from the special assessment; all benefited from the paving all must pay. Regardless of the above, Tigertail and South Barfield are completed and several others will be completed and some others will be started before the end of the year. These districts that are completed will be assessed, and whatever happens after that will depend on the outcome of the next election. Also, while I don’t believe a property can be charged a sewer utility fee until they are required to hookup. I do believe the city can and will assess the property on the tax bill.
IF, a new council is elected and votes to stop the STRP I believe that the only thing that will be stopped are any districts that have not had a shovel placed in the ground because I think that once a new council gets into the legal, financial and far reaching political consequences of calling a halt to all STRP that is under construction they might find the cost to great a price to pay and may decide to clean up what has been started. To me it makes no difference sewers come I pay, they don't come I don't pay. But I believe the people should know everything.
Ed my friend you are living in the past again, step to the present. You are right I would agree if that was indeed the case, but all of the times I have seen a clause in a contract that allows for termination of a contract, its for a reason like failure to start work in a timely manner, failure to maintain proper insurance, poor workmanship and other reasons not in accordance with the terms if the contract. It would be a great contract negotiator who could get a contractor to sign a contract, like let’s say South Collier Blvd for $7.7 that lets the city cancel at any time without reason and without profit. Perhaps you are referring to before the actual start date provided for in the contract, now that I may buy but there still would be some sort of gratuity.
In this case Tigertail and South Barfield are complete and Winterberry, North Barfield and others have been started and the STRP will not be stopped. Just how many more districts do you think will be under construction before next election? Because I believe, after much research, what I have stated in a previous comment to be correct regarding who gets to pay, I truly hope none and I believe the people have the right to know all of the facts.
Remember it was Neylon who got the edge paving removed from the assessment because of the very same laws. No benefit no assessment.
Godfrey, if you don't have anything constructive to say why show your lack of knowledge on the issues at hand.
Lolala, even Bill Moss can't fix that one its state law and charter law. Besides he will be gone remember. Lolala, why not address what will most definitely have an effect on some instead of trying to dance. This could be a serious consideration for some.
geezer, at the risk of having Godrfey Davies tell me that I am talking to myself again I agree with you to some extent. Depending on the outcome of the March election some on Marco Island could be in deep doo, doo. Most of the people involved in this stop the STRP campaign are good people who are being lead on an anything goes propaganda trip. I know many of these people and I respect all of them. It's their leaders with their personal attacks, selfish motives, frivolous law suites, complaints to any agency they think might listen and their spread of misinformation that has divided this island into what it is today. The only thing that will stop the STRP is a new anti-STRP council willing risk the fallout from stopping this sewer project and nothing else, not personal attacks, not frivolous law suites, not POP and not the Recall. What happens will be decided on March 9, 2008 and not before. I say let the dam system work and whatever happens, happens.
The losers in this fracas are everyone on Marco Island.
Strike3 I think I can answer that one; it’s simple, if the new council has the votes they just vote to stop the STRP. Whatever contracts that are out there that are not completed the city attempts to negotiate a settlement or the city gets sued for breach of contract. Either way the city pays.
However, beware because it comes with ramifications. Here's the interesting part. Those taxpayers that are connected to sewers and those that have a sewer connection available get to pay their special assessments. If the STRP is stopped those of us that are lucky enough not to be connected or have no connection available get to pay nothing. It’s the law, it’s in the charter it’s in the Florida statutes, you can't special assess me for something I did not get a benefit from and that's a fact check it out.
Below is a letter, from the CCSO, that just became public, regarding the asbestos investigation, that I thought all you friends and not friends of the city should be interested in.
May 18,2007
Roger Reinke, ChiefMarco Island Police Department 1280 San Marco RoadMarco Island, Florida 34145
Dear Chief Reinke:
Our agency received a request from citizens of Marco Island to conduct an investigation concerning the existence of asbestos material on a parcel of property owned by the City of Marco Island. I am of the understanding that the Marco Island Police Department has an active investigation concerning this matter. Further that the Florida Department of Envirorvnental Protection, along with the Federal Environmental Protection Agency is supervising deanup of the site and that any criminal wrongdoing noted by inspectors will be forwarded to the appropriate entity for investigation.
Based on this information and pending review of final outcomes, I have directed that my agency will not supersede the active investigation of the Marco Island Police Department.
The Collier County Sheriffs Office remains available to assist in this investigation at your request.
Sincerely
Don Hunter, Sheriff
DH:3931mc cc: File
Lowus, or as long as we are on a first name basis, I'll say Godfrey, what the hell is your problem. Do you not have anything better to do then to stay up until 3 o’clock in the morning playing guessing games and authoring personal attacks against people who are not 100% with you? It is this type of negativism along with other methods your group is using that has caused myself and many others to become detached from your cause and continuing in this vain will not further your efforts. It is the personal attacks against the leaders of our community and those that support some of these leaders that are one of the reasons that may doom your efforts. You of all people who have been involved in many campaigns should know personal attacks don’t work and tend to backfire by ticking people off.
At one time I supported your cause and had been outspoken on issues that I believed in, such as the cost of the STRP (an issue I still believe in) and what I felt at the time to be the unresponsiveness of the council.(an issue I still sometimes believe in) However, I have never hid the fact that I supported the STRP, only the way we were paying for it and until something better comes along I will support plan A and will urge others to do likewise and on other issues, I will deal with them next March at the polls. If not believing in suing the city or filing complaints with the FBI the CCSO the DEP the spreading of misinformation the personal attacks and believing in letting the democratic process work, makes me a Judas, I will proudly wear that badge.
While not in the regard you think, you are right, I am all those you say I am and many more and agree with most, but when I have something important to say, you will know that it is I who said it. Now please, stop with the guessing games the name calling and personal attacks and get back to the issues, you’re running out of time and I have more important personal issues to tend with then answering this nonsense.
As one who has always believed in facts, change my mind with facts and not conjecture, criticism, law suites, or personal attacks.
You have a Great day,
PS: Please say hello to your lovely wife Donna, for me. One of the things I really miss is our conversations and her sound logic.
Butch, I assume you are talking to me, or are you, seeing that I know where your web site is and check back frequently for updates you must have me confused with someone else.
But if you do care to discuss issues I would be happy to but not in this media.
liberatemarco, I have no idea where you get your information from but I am not and have never been a member of Celebrate Marco. Nor I have ever engaged in any activity that would get him fired. At times Mr. Bania's articles have been very interesting, informative and unbiased and I have told him so. At other times they have not been and I have also told him that. I have met Monte Lazarus twice and John Arceri once and at none of those times did Mr. Bania’s name cone up.
I take umbrage to your suggestion that I have or would engage in such activity. It is not for me or anyone else to say who Ed works for it is for those he works for to say. It is the spread of this type of false information that has lost your group supporters. I have spoken with Ed Baina and have told him that what you say is not true.
Now you've done it, you've gone and let the cat out of the bag, we'll never get in!!!!
Absolutly right up there with the best of the best Italian restaurants in South West Florida. It you like Italian cuisine you will love Gino's. Nicey nice, Gino.
Louise & Ray
Geezer, you are correct Butch Neylon, Ed Foster, myselfand others have meet with Councilor Popoff many times in an effort to come up with a plan to make the STRP more equitable. Lolala, I'm sure if you ask Butch he will confirm this.
Ray Beaufort
I think I answered that when I said that "it did not make the problem any less sever". Duh
Roger, stick to the facts. There was a spill but it was Fort Myers not Sanibel. It was big enough to have the EPA fine the city $64,500. It did not close any beaches on Sanibe and because it didn't, it did not make the problem any less severe. There was a leak in a Fort Myers sewer line. It happens just as septic systems fail. The problem with sewers is not the sewers it is the maintence or lack their of same with septic systems.
Roger, had you or any of your group attended the reuse water meeting last Monday at Mackle Park you would have learned, among other things, that state regulations require that raw water be treated to reuse water standards before it is sent to customers. Had you attended that meeting you would have had the opportunity to have all your questions answered. But not one of your concerned group was in attendance at this meeting.
I could tell you what transpired at this meeting and what some of the cities future plans are for reuse water but I won't, because you most assuredly will spin it in your usual negative manner.
Since I left the anti-STRP group and stopped beliving in the methods being used by Mr. Neylon and his gang I thought I would be able to stay out of this fracas, I was wrong.
I see the misinformed Mr. Neylon is at it again. While I, unlike the know everything Mr. Neylon and gang, profess to know nothing;
I do know that the letter that was presented to the City Council purporting to be authored by John Glenn of the Sierra Club was in fact mostly authored by Roger Hall and plagiarized by Mr. Glenn.
I do know that the Sierra Club opposed HB 749, that 2006 Florida House of Representatives bill that was supposed to stop the STRP here on Marco Island.
I do know that in an email I received from the Sierra Club, of which I am a member, states that the Sierra Club has no position on sewers versus septic systems.
I do know that in a report from the “Sierra Club entitled “Alternative Water Management Strategies for the 2006 South Central Texas Regional Water Plan” the Sierra Club recommends and encourages the use of ASR wells. http://texas.sierraclub.org/water/altwaterstrategies.pdf
Also, in a 2004 Barnstable County report compiled by environmental engineering firm, Wright-Pierce entitled “Enhancing Wastewater Management on Cape Cod” states in the introduction;
“Cape Cod's rapid development over the past three decades has stressed the Sole Source Aquifer, and the region's freshwater ponds and coastal embayments. It is widely agreed that the time has come for many areas of Cape Cod to begin a transition from traditional septic systems to a more sophisticated wastewater infrastructure that provides a higher level of treatment. Many Cape Cod communities are struggling with the technical, legal and financial management issues associated with that transition.”http://www.capecodcommission.org/water/WastewaterToolsReport/WWToolsRept.pdf
Facts gentlemen, not conjecture and please no more misinformation.
Hey marcobigguy! remember, the STRP would have been stopped if one of the candidates we elected had not lied to the voters in order to get elected. I assure you that won't happen again.
If you or anyone else would like to see that councilors web page which memorilizes his lies I would be just delighted to pass it along.
Anything less then 100% of the potable rate is a bargain. Sell it to me and I would gladly pay 75% of the potable rate.
Clinton did what? I suggest you read "LOSING BIN LADEN: How Bill Clinton's Failures Unleashed Global Terror" I believe it was back in 1992 that slick willy had the chance to nab Osama and he blew it big time.
My apologies my bifoculs were a bit dirty. I should stop speed reading.
There just can't be this many masters of misinformation on Marco Island. I think eagleeye has to be Ed Issler or his genetic twin.
For your information Roger Hall has owned a home on this island since July 2005 and not for a week as you state. Are you suggesting that only those who have lived here since 1986 or some other arbitrary date of your choosing should be allowed to voice an opinion.
I can read your opinions and not respond that is my choice. What I can't do is stand by and read your moronic misstatement of the facts without comment.
Many times, after checking first to see if they are CM members. You would be surprised how many are not.
I view CM is a very small group of very small minded people lead by has-beens and wannabe's who have know respect for the rights of others. Now they wish to take on the press. Good grief!! do you people really think you can dictate to and intimidate the press. You people are dumber then dumb.
I can name many, but I won't. But you can get a list of signers of the first petition and find out for your self. I assure you there are many business signers that support CARES and the recall and these are the business establishments I patronize. There are also many businesses on Marco Island that are not members of CM and those also are the businesses I patronize. I was once arrogantly asked by a member of CM what I would do if these business establishments were not on the Island, I simply answered, I'd take a short drive across the Jolly the bridge.
Boycott, outstanding idea. Does anyone have a current list of all ot the CM members that are business owners on Marco Island.
Mr. Issler, your incoherent babble leaves me scratching my head. Just what are you talking about the asbestos issue where the city, CARES and QE settled their differences or the STRP issue which has not been fully litigated.
In the first instance, all parties to the asbestos issue agreed to settlement on that issue, the city and QE agreed to;
1. Create a Veterans Park Development Board of which CARES get to nominate 4 members (not 5). (No 5 in agreement)
2. City will make demand for expenses connected with the remediation of any contamination of C and site A from QE. (No 6 and 7 in the agreement.)
3. City will hold QE to its contract on Collier Blvd (no 9 in agreement
3. City will withdraw its motion for sanctions. (No 10 in agreement)
3. QE will pay $32,500 in full satisfaction of any and all claims for fees or costs.(No 15 in agreement)
All CARES agreed to do was support the cleanup (Item 12 in) and dismiss the law suite (Item 9 in agreement read the dam thing you have it)
This was agreed to by all parties. Is this what you call a loss by CARES. I call it a very well structured settlement agreement and somewhat of a win for the city and CARES.
As to Mr. Joel’s statement being a proven mistake. I’d be interested in knowing how this was proved and please don’t tell me by some self-serving statement.
Mr. Issler, you are a master at misrepresenting the facts. Again you have proved that you know nothing about what you speak about.
The asbestos issue was never litigated it was settled between the parties through Mediation and agreed to and signed by all parties including Quality Enterprise, which you have stated in the past that they never signed. CARES, never lost the asbestos case it was settled. If you file a request with the city you can obtain a copy of the settlement agreement, or you can post your email address and I would be delighted to send the agreement to you. I would also be most happy to send you the video of Mr. Joel talking about the presence of asbestos.
60,000 people presently on Marco. Not in its best year did Marco Island ever have 60,000 people in residence,45,000. perhaps. Just where do you get these outrageous undocumented numbers from.
Lastly, the only fact you have right. There are over 13,000 registered voters on Marco Island 13,508 as of November. There were 13,207 registered voters as of the March 13, 2006 election of which 6,443 voters cast ballots and you sir were not one of them. For shame, Mr. Issler.
Now these are facts.
Who is this character Ed Issler with all the facts. He wouldn't know a fact if it bit him on the end of his nose. Rony Joel meant to say asphalt but made a mistake and said asbestos!! I'll bet even Mr. Joel is laughing at that one. I was present at that council meeting and Mr. Joel not only said it once he said it three times. Twice in response to a question from Councilor Minozzi and once in answer to a question from Butch Neylon. Mr. Joel was asked a question and he gave an honest answer and to this day I don't believe he has retracted that statement. Mr. Issler you are as stupid as stupid can be if you believe that anyone with half a brain believes any of your rantings. He ment to say asphalt, good grief!!!
Mr Issler, you are a wealth of misinformation Mr. Howard Murrell on behalf of Quality Enterprise on October 4, 2006 did indeed sign the Mediation Settlement Agreement which you say they did not sign and in accordance with that agreement the city has agreed to seek payment from Quality Enterprise for the asbestos cleanup. I have come to the conclusion from reading your nonsensical rhetoric that you sir know absolutely nothing about what you speak about. Prehaps you should talk with all your friends you profess to have at city hall and get your facts straight. Yes facts, something you know nothing at all about.
"I would have to think about it" what is their to think about, the councilor whoever it is, is way over the line. Good grief now we are telling our citizens if we don't like your politics we consider you an outcast.
Perhaps the recall committee has not targeted all that should be recalled.
Our government for the people, by the people and of the people has failed miserably here on Marco Island.
Welcome back JWP. We missed your wit.
Only an idiot member would confuse celebratingmarco.com with celebrateMarco.nothing, because as I recall at the time celebratingmarco.com came on the scene celebratemarco.nothing did not have a web site. If your membership did not know this then shame on them. Perhaps your communications official needs more skills. As far as the video the camera was in plain view and I am totally surprised that John Arceri did not see it.
Now here we are again. Because of a complaint I made to the city about what looked liked illegal dumping at site that caused others to take a hard look at site C more pieces of asbestos has been found. And what does the city do, it ludicrously again accuses its residents of planting this asbestos when the most plausible reason their was still asbestos at site C was that the asbestos remediation contractor who was hired to clean up site C inadvertently overlooked and did not remove all of the asbestos.
Yesterday I personally viewed, after it was dug up by the Marco Police, a piece of asbestos which looked like it had been in the ground for quite some time. Later with very little effort I observed, in the presence of the press, another piece of asbestos being dug up. The amount of asbestos that has been dug up at site C yesterday and the ease with it is being found leads me to believe that there is still a quantity of asbestos at site C and could not have possibly been planted by someone as the city has suggested.
Now we are into a full blown criminal investigation, an investigation that perhaps should have been conducted into the procedures the used by the contractor in handling this material in the first place, instead of an investigation into the possibility of citizens planting this asbestos.
I have lost all faith in ability of city staff and the majority of the city council to deal with and administer the operations of the city of Marco Island.
Wake up Marco Islander’s the barbarians are really at the gates.
Mr. edissler, not being an expert in the field of asbestos or in its remediation as you appear to be, even if your comments were true there are still standards for the handling this type of material. I would call our attention to;
"DEMOLITION PRACTICES UNDER THE ASBESTOS NESHAP Asbestos-Cement Pipe "EPA considers asbestos-cement pipe to be a "facility component" (as defined in 40 CFR 61.141) of the facility which owns or utilizes the pipe. In addition, EPA considers asbestos- cement pipe to be Category II nonfriable asbestos containing material. This material becomes "regulated asbestos containing material" (RACM), as defined in 40 CFR 61.141, when it becomes "friable asbestos material" or when it "has a high probability of becoming or has become crumbled, pulverized or reduced to powder by the forces expected to act on the material during the course of demolition or renovation operations regulated by [40 CFR Part 61 Subpart M]." Consequently, the crushing of asbestos-cement pipe with mechanical equipment will cause this material to become RACM. The demolition and renovation provisions in 40 CFR 61.145 and the waste disposal provisions in 40 CFR 61.150 apply to asbestos-cement pipe where the pipe is considered RACM, and the amount of pipe being removed and crushed is at least 260 linear feet for a single renovation project or during a calendar year for individual nonscheduled operations." The operative word in this case being "crumbled"; definition: To break into small fragments or particles.
The contractor did not followed these guides and back on March 7, 2005 when I first brought this to the attention of the city, the city immediately took the position of deniability regarding the existence of asbestos at site C and Collier Blvd and when CARES brought this to the attention of the people the city accused its residents of planting it. An absolutely incongruous accusation.
Kudos to CARES I say and kudos to Ed Bania for reporting the facts. I ask you, what would you rather have been done, sweep this under the city hall rug or correct a problem that through the efforts of CARES was brought to the attention of all Marco Island citizens, a problem that may have affected the citizens of Marco Islander’s for years to come. Would you have rather let the contractor go unfettered in his improperly handling of this material? Here is some food for thought, if this asbestos water pipe been not discovered by CARES would the contractor have crushed it and used this crushed material in the construction of South Collier Blvd and how much of this material was crushed and used before CARES brought this to the attention of the city? Makes me wonder. The existence of asbestos at site C is undisputed, I know this to be true because it would be unconscionable for the city to pay nearly 85K to clean up site C if there were not a problem.
Mr Autry, I was at the meeting when the clergy you refer to spoke before the council. While she was booed, which was totally inappropriate behavior on the part of those who did the booing, I did not hear or see any woman screaming or hissing like reptiles and she certainly was not booed to the extent that had to leave the podiun. You really should attend council meetings to get the facts straight and to better understand what some people are upset about also, you should vote in all of our local elections if you are as concerned as you say your.
wow! this is quite a statement from a non-political group made up of has been and wannabe politicians and those who think they are lawyers. Has any of you gentlemen heard of the first amendment, you know that pesky item in the constitution that was made first for a reason, the thing that your group and the council would tread upon. Non-political, yea right and God didn't make little green apples.
Celebratemarco, your right Marco Island was never intended to be a retirement community. The Mackle brothers intended this Island to be developed for "moderate income persons", (see prologue "The Last Paradise" "The Building of Marco Island") which would be something less then $45,000 which was the average U. S. income in 2004. Live a quality life and raise a family and owne a home on 45K today on Marco Island, I don't think so.
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